Cream of the Crop 1/Cream of the Crop 1.iso/RELIGION/OB_92.ARJ/03-22-92

Text File | 1992-03-22 | 144KB | 3,089 lines

Date       03-15-92 08:22:00
From       Terry Blount
To         John Williams
Subject    Family life/America's den

 JW> So, if you espouse the classical concept that good comes to the
 JW> good and bad comes to the bad in this life (which you have
 JW> indeed) then here is a "turning away from
 JW> God" in the very beging.  You declare that the decay of morals
 JW> in the governmenhas led to this state, and that the Government
 JW> should controll it...

 Not exactly.  If we have God centered leadership, we have a more likely
 chance that the ethical and moral standard of the citizens can be raised
 to the quality that leads to prosperity.  If individuals will put effort
 into improving their moral character, we won't be dealing with cures for
 aids, drugs and production of poor quality products that no one wants.
 Who is trying to encourage the people of their government to put God at
 the center?   Could it be those morons up there in Washington who can't
 balance their own check books?   That greedy crew is in Government only
 because they could not make it in business.  For a business to prosper,
 they must serve the customer. The political leaders of this country are
 not offering a product any consumer would want to buy.  Look at what
 they have done in the past 10 years in pure economical terms. They
 allowed the debt that is going to be passed on to our next generation to
 quadruple from 1 trillion dollars to 4 trillion dollars. All the taxes
 that we pay now are just enough to pay the interest on that 4 trillion
 dollar debt.  How can we allow anyone to steal from our children like
 this?

 JW> But Thomas Jefferson, a very respected leader of this country,
 JW> maintained that "a government that could legislate morality was
 JW> too strong."  People were inclined o agree with him.  That is why
 JW> there is freedom of the press, freedom of speech.

 Being the member of a minority religion I could not disagree with the
 importance of freedom of religion and freedom for minorities. But can we
 allow a person or government to destroy our quality of life and our
 future.  Can a person rob you in the name of freedom?  Freedom comes
 with responsibility and when people act irresponsibly they are punished.
 When a person is found guilty of taking the money or property of other,
 they are not allowed to keep it.

 JW> What countries do have established religion, and how have they JW>
 fared?

 When Moses had difficulty with the people he was leading he went to the
 mountains and talked to God about it.  God did not have a committee
 meeting. He did not take a vote.  He gave Moses a 10 point urban renewal
 plan.  This plan instructed the people to stop lying, cheating, killing
 fornicating and acting selfishly.  It said to put God at the center.
 This plan, when followed, solves the problems that are a result of poor
 character development.  I understand the problems that result from
 established religions.  I do not support the establishment of a national
 or world religion.  I do support a policy that values responsible
 actions of governments and their citizens.  I can assure you that people
 who develop the highest code of moral conduct will have to spend less of
 their energy trying to resolve the problems of crime, poverty and
 disease.   If the leaders of America could learn to invest the energy it
 is been required to waste on its problems into serving the world, they
 may see how quickly the citizens will change.  The cure for America and
 the formula for success is simple:  "Serve God" MAT 6:33    But seek ye
 first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things
 shall be added unto you.

 JW> What has caused this dissoution of family life, and is it realy
 JW> that bad a thing?  Okay, here it is.  In the past, it was
 JW> immoral to divorce, and the consequences, socialy and legaly,
 JW> were disasterous to the woman more than the man.  Therefore,
 JW> people got marred and lived their lives with someone they hated,
 JW> oftenb abusing them metaly or physicaly, and there was no way
 JW> out.  Now with the women's lib movemnet, it has become
 JW> acceptable for people to look aty thier lives and say "whoops."
 JW> Then they can change it.  In the long run, thier lives are
 JW> better, they have less problems, and so do their children - who,
 JW> otherwise may have to live with viloence and an unhappy family.

 I don't buy this philosophy at all.  People who marry out of lust and
 sexual infatuation never make happy families.  People who divorce in
 most cases will divorce again.  Love is something that requires
 consistent effort. When people don't make such effort and the families
 dissolve that is a very bad thing.  Exactly like a spinal cord injury to
 an individual will cause them to be totally dysfunctional, family
 breakdown will cause a society and nation to be totally dysfunctional.
 That is why Satan's tools for destruction is always sexual selfishness,
 lust, pornography, free sex, free love, homosexuality, sexual disease,
 and child abuse. These problems are always the cause of the fall of
 great empires. America is deeply infected. The solution is celibacy till
 marriage and monogamy afterwards.  It is hard to live a monogamous
 lifestyle when one is watching porn movies.  Watching movies where
 couples display no reservations about who or what or how many at once
 they share their sexual love with is so stimulating to most people that
 the hum drum relation with one's spouse cannot hope to compare.  God's
 hope is to purify sexual love.  That is why we are waiting the marriage
 of the Lamb.  Christ was murdered before he could marry and establish a
 model family for fallen man to follow.  Christ must return and make all
 things new... especially the relationship between men and women...
 husband and wife.   The government cannot legislate this. It must be
 accomplished by someone so there will be a clear heavenly pattern to
 follow.  Once there is a heavenly pattern, a heavenly standard, the
 spiritual world will judge everyone by that standard.  Those who want to
 exercise their freedom to NOT conform will not prosper any longer.

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Date       03-15-92 09:39:00
From       Terry Blount
To         John Williams
Subject     Free Will

 JW>       You say that we do not have freedom, we mearly have the
 JW> illusion of freedom.  What is your basis for this?  Can you
 JW> prove it rationaly and reasonably?

 Alan is correct.  We are not free.  We are not free to sin. The wages of
 sin is death.  Hardly a bargain by anyone's standards.  We are only free
 to do good.  As for proof, you many not be able to see that in the
 moment, but if you study spiritual law you may find that whatever you
 sow you will reap.

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Date       03-15-92 09:43:00
From       Terry Blount
To         John Williams
Subject     Free Will

 JW> I have several problems with a post you made to Alan Smith.
 JW> I'll try to remember more or less what you said to jog your
 JW> memory, then discuss what I am having trouble with.  By the by,
 JW> I have been promised a full screen editor by my SysOp
 JW> RSN, so the problem is close to a resolution.

 To be most effective you should use an offline reader. If your sysop
 doesn't have one and can't set one up,  you can capture messages to a
 buffer in a communication program.  Save the messages and edit them with
 a word processor while offline.  Then call the bbs and start to enter a
 new message as you normally would.  When you fill out the to: from: and
 subject fields and get to the first line of the body of the message,
 just press page up on your comm program and send the file with your
 message in it... VIA Ascii protocol.  It will look like you are typing
 pretty fast.

 Btw, offline editing will allow you to import scripture from many of the
 Bible search programs without typing it AND you can run a spell checker
 over the messages you have prepared.   SS23  is an excellent stand alone
 spell checker.  If you want a macro to make it work with Qedit let me
 know.

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Date       03-15-92 09:50:00
From       Terry Blount
To         John Williams
Subject     Free Will

 JW> You said something to the effect that "overpopulation occurs
 JW> when people feel they are among people they do not like."  Not
 JW> your actual words, but the meaning (or at least, the meaning I
 JW> got out of it) .  There is alot more to overpopulation
 JW> than just feeling crowded.  Diseases flourish in heavily
 JW> populated areas because of 1) the number of people and the
 JW> contacts they make every day and 2) the decaying sanitary system
 JW> that very large cities face. Overpopulation depletes the
 JW> worlds recources at an alarming rate, leaving nothing for the
 JW> rest of us.

 Well, basically you working from the assumption that there is not enough
 to go around, but is that accurate?  Did you know that less than 1% of
 the eggs laid by fish hatch and reach maturity?  In a fish hatchery,
 over 80% of the eggs hatch and live to maturity.  The ocean is the
 future of man's food resources.  So the major concern about food is not
 a problem.  The problem of hunger is simply a lack of ambition and will
 to attack the problem.  Once you have enough to eat, what else do you
 need?  We have plenty of land that is not used, and we know we can build
 housing on top of housing on top of housing even a few miles upward into
 the sky.  So we can have plenty housing.  The earth has plenty of
 resources for building material.  We will have to rely on wood products
 less, but there are other materials available.

 The external needs of mankind must be met, but the real problem is in
 solving man's internal character conflicts.  I may have plenty, but
 unless I feel you are my brother there isn't much chance I will share
 with you.

 JW> Almost all of us understathe "personal space" concept.  One
 JW> someone gets too close to you, you get
 JW> nervous.  If they stay there, you get realy annoyed, and if they
 JW> keep it up, violent acts may follow.

 If that was the case then I would have killed my wife a long time ago.
 When you love someone you can't get close enough to them.

 JW> Humanity is an interesting mix of a social creature and a
 JW> solitary creature.

 Therein lies the solution for boredom.

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Date       03-15-92 10:51:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Phil Morrison
Subject     Messiah

 PM> TB> No need to wait any longer.  HE Came !

 PM>    My, my.   I missed it.

 So did millions of other christians.  He may be on earth another 10
 years.  He will be giving the blessing of marriage to fallen people one
 more time ( probably August of this year ),  so you have one last chance
 at the 11 th hr.  but time is running out.

 MAT 20:6    And about the eleventh hour he went out, and found others
 standing idle, and saith unto them, Why stand ye here all the day idle?
 They say unto him, Because no man hath hired us. He saith unto them, Go
 ye also into the vineyard..

 MAT 20:12   Saying, These last have wrought [but] one hour, and thou
 hast made them equal unto us, which have borne the burden and heat of
 the day. But he answered one of them, and said, Friend, I do thee no
 wrong: didst not thou agree with me for a penny? Take [that] thine [is],
 and go thy way: I will give unto this last, even as unto thee. Is it not
 lawful for me to do what I will with mine own? Is thine eye evil,
 because I am good? So the last shall be first, and the first last: for
 many be called, but few chosen.

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Date       03-15-92 10:58:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Phil Morrison
Subject     Moon

 PM> WC> Mark 13:26 And then shall they see the Son of man COMING IN
 PM> THE WC> CLOUDS with great POWER AND GLORY.
 PM>
 PM> TB> stratosphere. This is the most irrational, illogical, idea
 PM> anyone has TB> ever had.
 PM>
 PM>    Except for the idea that Christ has already returned, which
 PM> really    takes the cake.

 You know that is exactly what the people said to Jesus about a man who
 went up into the clouds a few centuries earlier and was expected to
 return before Christ appeared:

 Jesus' response is the same response I have for you.

 MAT 17:12   But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they
 knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise
 shall also the Son of man suffer of them.

 LUK 18:8    I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless
 when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?

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Date       03-15-92 11:06:00
From       Terry Blount
To         John Williams
Subject    The Second Coming

 JW> My message is this: if you
 JW> believe the Lord is comming soon, good for you. Live every day
 JW> to your fullest potential,

 Good advice, but when the Messiah comes he will be born of a woman and
 few people will recognize him.  He may have already been born. So my
 advice for those who are waiting on the coming of the Messiah is to
 start looking.

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Date       03-15-92 11:39:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Rich Cowan
Subject     Perfect

 RC> check this out would you Terry...

 I'll have to tell Mike to address messages to Terry Blount because my
 utility is not properly converting Sysop to Terry Blount when the
 messages are exported to the fidonet format.  Sorry about the problem.
 I'm looking for a new utility but have not been able to find the one I
 want to try out.  I found it but I have to be validated on the system
 before I can d/l it.

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Date       03-15-92 19:42:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Chris Stamper
Subject     Satan

 CS> How does a person become a God-loving, religious, and moral
 CS> person?

 Reorganize one's priorities.  Rather than seeking gratification, look
 for a way to serve other people.  In other words, seek to give love
 rather than receive love.  Practice giving first before you receive.

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Date       03-15-92 19:45:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Philip Brown
Subject    SOUL

 PB>              "For in Christ there is all of God in a human body"
 PB>                             (Colossians 2:9, Living)
 PB>
 PB>     The word in the Greek used for "body" is SOMA, and it
 PB> *always* refers to a physical body, never to a spirit.  (See 1
 PB> Thess. 5:23 and James 2:26.)

 Seems Col 2:9 contradicts JOH 4:24

          God [is] a Spirit: and they that worship him
          must worship [him] in spirit and in truth.

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Date       03-15-92 23:08:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Carey Starzinger
Subject    Legalism

 CS> I do not mean to sound antagonistic towards you or your faith (
 CS> I don't even know what faith you are ).  I am merely trying to
 CS> point out Bible truths.  You, of course, are free to exercise
 CS> your God given free will and reject everything I have relayed.

 You must be new to the world of bbs communications, especially a
 religious conference.  I don't think I have seen such a polite
 presentation in a year.  I hope you don't get easily offended when
 people speak strongly and ridicule your faith.  Of course you may find
 more folks in favor of your doctrine than I have since I am a follower
 of the Rev. Sun Myung Moon.   I'm not any kind of official spokesman for
 the Unification Church, but after hanging around for almost 16 years, I
 have a little better idea of what is being taught than someone who had a
 cousin who went to a weekend workshop.  Let me know if I can be of any
 assistance.

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Date       03-16-92 06:44:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Keith Suggs
Subject    JWs and Moonies

 KS> Dear Terry:
 KS>
 KS> Is the forthcoming August blessing tax deductible?  :-)

 I'll have to look into that.  But the main selling point is the eternal
 life insurance plan that it includes.  In my Father's house there are
 many mansions and the most luxurious suits are reserved for married
 couples. Of course only 'valid' marriage certificates are the ones
 issued by God's son.

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Date       03-16-92 12:01:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Philip Brown
Subject     end of law?

 PB>     No.  In fact, I checked the On-Line Bible program for every
 PB> occurence of the words "fulfil*" and "right*".  The "*" is a
 PB> wild card symbol which would look for words like "fulfill",
 PB> "fulfilled", "fulfilling".  The only two places that any
 PB> combinations of the word

 What search prog is that with?  It does not seem to work with YSTS.

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Date       03-16-92 12:02:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Philip Brown
Subject     end of law?

 PB>     For instance, if you drive your car at 100 miles per hour,
 PB> you will get a speeding ticket.  But if you are a diplomat from
 PB> another country, you would be giving diplomatic immunity which
 PB> is exemption from court action.  Christians in effect have been
 PB> given diplomatic immunity which means that even though the laws
 PB> still exist, Christians will be exempt from any judgement from
 PB> them-- of course, this does not hold true for non-Christians.

 The trouble with that kind of reasoning is that fallen man uses it as
 rational to put themselves above the law.    Saying "I'm a christian"
 does not grant one diplomatic immunity.  In fact, diplomatic immunity is
 most difficult to come by.  You can't get it by yourself.  AND from my
 understanding of scripture, Jesus is not the "nice guy" who is going to
 be freely passing "get out of Hell Free cards"  like everyone seems to
 think he is:


 MAT 7:21    Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter
 into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father
 which is in heaven. MAT 7:22    Many will say to me in that day, Lord,
 Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out
 devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? MAT 7:23     And then
 will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work
 iniquity.

 MAT 25:41   Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart
 from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and
 his angels:

 LUK 13:27   But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are;
 depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity.

 Sorry to pick on you Phil.  Things were getting boring.

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Date       03-16-92 12:13:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Steve Klemetti
Subject    Leave of Absence

 SK> The subject is a leave of absence because due to technical
 SK> reasons I am not able to receive this echos as usual.

 Hey !   A devoted soul would call long distance... ha he he

 Check out my tagline and call my bbs and use megamail to keep up with
 the latest news from God !

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Date       03-16-92 17:11:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Walter Copes
Subject    Godhead               1/

 WC>     John 4:24 GOD IS A SPIRIT: and they that worship him must
 WC> worship [him] in spirit and in truth.
 WC>
 WC>     The word here is singular "spirit" nor "spirits." There is
 WC> one God and God is a Spirit. Therefore, there can be only one
 WC> divine Spirit.
 WC>
 WC> Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so
 WC> be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not
 WC> the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
 WC>
 WC> I Corinthians 7:40 But she is happier if she so abide, after my
 WC> judg- ment: and I think also that I have the Spirit of God.
 WC>
 WC>     Paul used the word "Spirit of God" not "Spirits of God."
 WC> There is one God and God is a Spirit. Therefore, there can be
 WC> only one divine Spirit or we have more than one God.

 Perfect !   How then can Jesus be God?  He can't.  He can allow God to
 dwell in him and so could millions or even trillions of other people who
 are born into Christ's lineage.   Would God only want one shuch child or
 more?  How many more?

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Date       03-16-92 17:16:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Walter Copes
Subject    Godhead               1/

 WC>     I have not claimed that the humanity of Jesus was the Divine
 WC> Spirit. However, since Jesus WAS also human in every aspect He
 WC> had a human spirit just as everyone has a spirit.
 WC>
 WC> MW>Considering that I believe Angels are the "Holy Spirit"
 WC>
 WC>     Then you are a polytheist. There are many angles. Since the
 WC> Holy Spirit is God and there is only one God there can be only
 WC> one divine Spirit which is holy. The belief that angels are the
 WC> Holy Spirit is therefore nothing more than polytheism attempting
 WC> to disguise itself as monotheism.

 If Jesus could "house" two spirits then why can't the angels?  If having
 a physical body is what gave Jesus that ability to house two spirits,
 then after he was murdered he would be like the angels and thereby
 suffer the same limitations.

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Date       03-16-92 17:25:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Walter Copes
Subject    Godhead               2/

 WC>     The comparison is meaningless. Members of the church
 WC> (humans) are not divine and never will be divine.

 Don't judge everyone's church by your own. <grin>  Since you realize
 your church's members may never attain the tree of life (resemblance of
 God), it may be a good time to look for another church.

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Date       03-16-92 19:55:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Phil Morrison
Subject     Armageddon

 PM>     Which brings up the interesting question, Terry,
 PM>     What would it take to cause you to change?

 Heck, I've been trying to change and become a better person for the past
 15 years since I first met Rev. Moon and through his teachings came to
 know God.  There is no magic formula to overcoming selfishness and
 fallen nature.  Washing one's brain is a most tedious task. <grin>

 PM>     I sincerely am looking for Truth, which is
 PM>     why I stopped holding Sunday to be the sabbath.

 Rev. Moon gave a speech name "No Sabbath for God"  if you are interested
 in that particular topic I'll try to extract and post the essence of
 that speech.

 PM>     I felt that what Jesus removed from me,
 PM>                  was my guilt,
 PM>     not the Law of God that made me guilty....

 Guilt is a heavy thing to deal with but confession, repenting, and
 making a new determination is part of every religion's teachings. Change
 is necessary in order to restore one's relationship with God.  So few
 people are really trying to improve themselves I'm sure it moves the
 heart of God to find people who are actually guilty about their
 misconduct.  One thing I try to personally keep in focus is the saying
 that things are NEVER as bad OR as GOOD as they seem to be.   I know
 when I feel guilty the last thing I want to do at that time is pray.
 However prayer has a cleansing effect that really works to purify one's
 heart.

 The reality of being human is that we have to deal with the spiritual
 world.  Even though we cannot (usually) see and hear spirits, we
 nevertheless have feelings that are caused/influenced by them.  Much of
 our personal guilt is the influence of out ancestors who realize the
 mistakes they made while they lived on earth.  If you have a heavy
 spirit and a lot of guilt, you may get a better understanding by reading
 some of the books that are written about the spiritual world.  I don't
 suggest direct communication with spiritual world.  But I have found
 some important information in a couple books like "The Unquiet Dead" and
 "Life in the World Unseen."   When we study crime and evil in the
 physical world we always find the those who participate in that kind of
 activity place a great deal of their effort in remaining hidden. Where
 did evil learn to hide?  Does exposing evil help to defeat it?  If
 humans are suffering from the influence of demonic spiritual influence,
 when we read something that teaches or reveals their activities, we can
 feel something funny going on.  In fact even as I am writing this, I
 feel a spiritual influence but not demonic.  It may be I have a
 connection to some spirit(s) that wants to relay something to your
 ancestors (who are in the spiritual world).

 What I have just written may sound strange and I'm definitely not
 interested in becoming any kind of medium or doing any kind of
 channeling.  But from what I have read in some of the books I have
 mentioned, I have come to learn that it is difficult for people who have
 passed into the spiritual world to take the advice their guides give
 them.  They actually don't realize they are hindering the spiritual
 growth and development of the people they are trying to help.  If you
 read this and think about it, it is most likely that "they" will pick up
 these thoughts and possibly consider doing what they have already been
 instructed to do.  I don't know.  This is mainly conjecture.  The only
 support for this concept that I can recall at this time is from Hebrews:

 HEB 11:40   God having provided some better thing for us, that they
 [saints of the Old Testament era] without us [the living] should not be
 made perfect.

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Date       03-16-92 20:35:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Phil Morrison
Subject     HOLY SPIRIT

 PM> TB> I surely feel Christ's crucifixion was a major mistake.

 PM>     (s)atan tried to prevent it.  Perhaps the very greatest
 PM>     temptation of Jesus, was the satan-injected thought that

 Satan departed for an opportune time:  the KJV says "season"

 LUK 4:13    And when the devil had ended all the temptation, he departed
 from him for a season.

 We know that Satan entered Judas and then Judas betrayed Christ.

 I have been struggling with teaching what I believe to be the truth
 about Jesus' ministry for a long time, and the main reason is that
 people fail to take into consideration that the events took place over a
 period of time, at least 3 years.   It is true that Satan wanted Jesus
 to commit suicide, but at that point in his ministry Jesus had just
 taken the role of Elijah because of the failure and faithlessness of
 John the Baptist who was intended to fulfill the role of Elijah and make
 straight the way of the Lord.  Recall the failures in the Old Testament
 and take note that when they occurred a indemnity period of 40 days or
 in some cases 400 years had to be paid.  Note that when Abraham fell
 asleep and did not offer the pigeon and dove, he was awakened to find
 his descendants would suffer in slavery for 400 years. And they did,
 beginning with his great grand child Joseph until Moses came along. The
 people following Moses lost faith and had to wander in the wilderness
 for 40 years until they were dead and then their children could then
 enter Canaan when that indemnity condition was concluded.

 Jesus indemnified the failure of John the Baptist through his 40 day
 fast.  At that point, Jesus no longer had anyone to make straight his
 way.  He had no alternative but to leave the position of Messiah and
 take up the mission of Elijah.  Satan wanted Jesus to give up then and
 not even try to continue his ministry.  Had Jesus been able to convince
 people that he was the long awaited Messiah, he could still have
 established the kingdom of God at that time through celebrating the long
 awaited marriage of the Lamb.  Christ came to make all things new, most
 importantly of these things that must be made new is the family.  The
 original family was lost to Satan at the fall.  Christ comes as the last
 Adam to restore the first Adam's failure.  Christ must therefore marry
 and parent sinless children.

 When Jesus gathered a few humble followers and tried to continue his
 ministry he was not welcomed anywhere.  Eventually he reached a point he
 knew that he was going to be lynched.  He prayed in the Garden of
 Gethsemane for God's support and protection that he may continue his
 ministry.  Many christians think Jesus Christ the son of God was praying
 a timid prayer our of human weakness for his own life.  However we have
 to question this kind of thinking.  Was Jesus Christ a lesser man than
 someone like Nathan Hale who would not pray from weakness but instead
 face death and say "I regret that I have one life to give for my
 country." ?

 Jesus Christ did not pray a coward's prayer our of fear of his own
 death. Even you would die without praying a coward's prayer if you knew
 your death would bring eternal salvation to the whole world.  Jesus
 prayed because he knew the suffering heart of God and wanted to end
 God's suffering,  he also knew his followers and the Jewish people would
 suffer a most miserable history.  So Jesus was praying for God, the
 Jewish people and anyone who chose to follow him.

 Jesus gave his life  and opened up a way for spiritual salvation. But he
 could have done so much more had he found followers like St. Paul prior
 to Palm Sunday.

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Date       03-16-92 20:58:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Phil Morrison
Subject    Jews, Christians

 PM>     And (in one screen or less) tell me why you expect to be
 PM>     favored by God in the next life...

 First, you seem to like one screen but you don't realize that every
 screen carries with it a header, and a tagline and an origin line.  In
 many cases the necessary info to make a message costs the sysops more
 than the message itself.   I am one of those sysops who have given over
 1,000 to the phone co. during the past 2 years to make such a network
 possible.  Now I will get off that soapbox and onto the next.


 Why do I expect to be favored by God?

 Because He is my father.  I abandoned my roots to Adam and engrafted to
 Christ.

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Date       03-16-92 21:04:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Phil Morrison
Subject     Messiah

 TB> I went to Russia and taught about God to 3,000+ college students.
 TB> Who made that possible?

 PM>     I had wondered about the finances on that, myself!

 The costs of the seminars was not too much but the cost of getting the
 staff there was.  It was up to the families of the staff members who
 went to pay aprox $1,500 for the transportation expenses.   My wife is
 there now.  She went last week.  We are still seeking donations to pay
 off the credit cards.  Do you want to get in on the financing?

 PM>     Or is is secret?

 It won't be a secret if you send me a check for $1,000 !    I'll tell
 everyone in every conference what a wonderful guy you really are !

 PM>     PS: I agree with much of what Walter says.

 I hope you aren't expecting Walter to save you... better look to the
 Sun !  Yes sUn !

 Hallelujah !   the Moon is the Son !

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Date       03-17-92 06:49:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Alan Smith
Subject    Free Will

 AS> TB> Evolution does not "generate."
 AS>
 AS> It generates new species.  Random mutation produces both good
 AS> and bad variations
 AS> and natural selection kills off all but the best variations in
 AS> severe times.

 Still a form of modification and not generation.
 Even a Rolls will rust.  That is variation.  Without an input of thought
 and energy anything will run down.

 AS> TB> Evolution is the external 'appearance'
 AS> TB> of some internal unseen driving force of conscious.
 AS>
 AS> What evidence do you have that this conscious, driving force
 AS> exists?

 I experience His presence.

 AS> Reason and logic seems not to have existed
 AS> at all until man arrived

 Man did not create the laws of math, physics and science, he only
 discovered those laws, and they are rational.

 AS> Reason and
 AS> logic are not required for salt crystals to form in a puddle of
 AS> evaporating salt water.  I suspect you yourself are falling prey
 AS> to "category blunder," assuming that everything has a divine
 AS> origin in spite of having no convincing evidence (so far).

 Could be, but I know that once the human mind forms an opinion, it seeks
 to find evidence to support that conclusion and at the same time it
 tries to block out any evidence that contradicts that opinion.  In
 reality neither of us have "convincing evidence."

 As for the the formation of salt crystals upon evaporation, I can not
 find any support there for a theory of evolution.  Salt crystals will
 form in the exact same manner every time the solution is dehydrated.  If
 evolution is true then we would expect some change or failure.

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Date       03-17-92 07:05:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Alan Smith
Subject    Free Will

 AS> Sociobiology, per se, was neither the cause nor could have been
 AS> the cure. Sociobiology merely explains what happened in
 AS> biological terms.  Perhaps someone in the future will learn
 AS> enough about the origins of human nature, with the help of the
 AS> hypotheses of sociobiology, to find a "cure," just like
 AS> doctors, once they found out about bacteria, found cures for
 AS> certain diseases by finding chemicals which would kill bacteria.

 This is exactly what I believe Dr. Sun Myung Moon has done.  He
 discovered the origin of individual and social malfunction and he is
 teaching/administering the cure.  Not everyone believed the doctors that
 discovered the disease causing bacteria. So diseases continue to destroy
 because people won't take their medicine.

 AS> TB> The fall of the Roman empire took place during a time of
 AS> plenty.

 AS> You are talking about a different subject than I was talking
 AS> about.  I was talking about the origin of our instincts of
 AS> group-survival and individual-survial, though those instincts
 AS> very often conflict with each other.
 AS>
 AS> The fall of the Roman Empire came about as individual-survival
 AS> issues became
 AS> more important to the individuals than group(Empire)-survival
 AS> issues.  That is, individuals became greedy, especially as they
 AS> learned to distrust others within their group.  Had the Empire
 AS> been a very needy tribe, there would have
 AS> been much more cohesiveness between the individuals since the
 AS> need for each of one's fellow tribesman would have been much
 AS> more apparent.

 First you indicated that social dysfunction is the result of lack. Now
 you are saying the Roman Empire would have survived if they had been in
 need.   If need is a necessary ingredient to survival then
 overpopulation is the solution.

 AS> >AS> We are currently
 AS> >AS> under relatively high stress due to overpopulation
 AS> (especially >AS> compared to several thousand years ago).
 AS>
 AS> TB> One only feels "overpopulated" when they are among people
 AS> they do not TB> love.
 AS>
 AS> Which is the case when overpopulation occurs.  Overpopulation
 AS> brings many strangers into one's close proximity.

 So we must change out attitude about each other:

 JOH 13:34   A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another;
 as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.

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Date       03-17-92 07:37:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Alan Smith
Subject    Free Will

 AS> TB> If all the people on earth were loving and serving you do
 AS> you TB> think the world would need a few more people?
 AS>
 AS> I don't understand the point of the question.  I don't see why
 AS> the world would need more people.  Having far less people would
 AS> relieve a lot of strain upon
 AS> the earth's resources and the strain upon the earth's ability to
 AS> assimilate our wastes.

 The only resource that we are suffering from a lack of is true love. We
 have the technology to solve the rest of problems, we only lack the will
 to do.

 AS> >AS> they start expressing seeking personal possessions.  What
 AS> you >AS> seek is what is the natural state of man, as expressed
 AS> by >AS> primitive tribes - it is not something new to be
 AS> acquired - it >AS> is ours already.
 AS>
 AS> TB> Yes, we all want to get back to the Garden.
 AS>
 AS> Which, I am suggesting, we all carry within ourselves.  That is,
 AS> the potential.
 AS> This potential seems to be hidden behind our fears.

 Exactly.  We try to come out of ourselves and love people then we get
 hurt and retreat.  Our fear of emotional pain from rejection when our
 love is not reciprocated is invalidating out potential.

 AS> The way back to the Garden may be by deliberately
 AS> not returning an anxiety for every anxiety received.  That is,
 AS> if someone does something nasty to you out of their anxiety
 AS> (sometimes expressed as greed,
 AS> hatred, etc.), try to not react with acts in kind, but with kind
 AS> acts,

 I could not agree more.

 ROM 12:21   Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good.

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Date       03-17-92 07:44:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Alan Smith
Subject    Free Will

 AS> TB> Yes, selfish people do induce problems, but why do people
 AS> become TB> selfish?  Who gave this instinct to man?
 AS> During hard times,
 AS> when food was scarce, they survived when competing with loving
 AS> people because they took more food than the others. Their
 AS> descendants, in turn, were more greedy than average (averaged

 I agree with the jest of your theory but disagree with your conclusion.
 Have you considered that group survival insures individual survival.  If
 the body of an organism survives doesn't that automatically insure the
 survival of the individual organs and cells?

 Btw, when we consider the historical account of the fall of man and
 consider that our original ancestors made a mistake KNOWING that it
 would cost them their lives we have to question what exactly was it that
 they wanted that was so expensive.  If we tell someone, even a very
 hungry person, that we have a most delicious dinner for them, but it is
 poisonous, will they still eat it?   Whatever it was that brought about
 man's fall had to have been more desirable than life itself.  Only love
 could be that desirable.

 TB> What is the cure?
 AS> "Mother Nature" thinks things are fine just as they are.

 Are we talking about the same "Mother Nature" that has had her forest
 destroyed, here streams and rivers polluted, her air filled with carbon
 dioxide, many of her plants and animals made extinct, her protective
 ozone layer shot full of holes?

 ROM 8:22    For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth
 in pain together until now.

 AS>  For us to tamper with the situation is to threaten the
 AS> ability of our species (or nationality, or race, or class
 AS> (whatever it is we might separate ourselves from as a result of
 AS> our tampering)) to survive future "hard times."

 The situation has already been "tampered" with.  The industrial
 revolution of man brought some serious tampering.

 AS> But we are going to mess with ourselves if at all we can, no
 AS> doubt, in our pursuit of individual happiness.

 It is my conclusion that something needs to be corrected within
 ourselves.

 AS> TB> Historically,  humans have looked to religion for answers to
 AS> the woes of
 AS> TB> society and solution for the problems of the inner man. When
 AS> religion TB> fails, some members of society start to oppress and
 AS> dominate the weaker,

 AS> This seems to always happen when a person's hopes in the
 AS> abilities of some group or belief to which he allied himself are
 AS> dashed.  At this point, "the honeymoon is over."

 So, we must find a true love that is eternally consistent and disregard
 the old love that is temporal and based on infatuation.

 TB> then a radical solution is sought.  We have seen this take place,
 and TB> the radical solution that was tired was communism.

 AS> Democracy was tried, too, but it had to be modified so that the
 AS> majority did
 AS> not have absolute power over the minority.  That is, minority
 AS> "rights" were given respect and value in our laws.

 But this attempt at "modification" has failed.  Democracy doesn't work
 either. Democracy is best explained/described as riot control. The
 majority gets what it wants and the minorities are left to survive from
 the crumbs from the master's table. Look at what our own government has
 done.  It took America over 200 years to get into a 1 trillion dollar
 debt, but the decisions of the last ten years have quadrupled that debt
 to 4 trillion dollars.  In essence we are selfishly exploiting the
 weaker minority through stealing from our children. Who did this?  Who
 voted for these bozos who could not even balance their own checkbooks?
 The situation in America is a reflection of the selfishness of the
 individuals.  Everyone running for president is talking about how to
 reform the economy.  Without a reformation of the individual there will
 be no economical reformation.

 AS> Inasmuch as Communism had "commune-ism" as its ideal, it was a
 AS> good thing. But selfishness very quickly predominated over
 AS> ideals.  "commune-ism" is what gave the revolution its original
 AS> appeal to the masses.

 And so did Democracy.  We must find a new ideology that addresses the
 problem of selfishness.  That is exactly what Rev. Moon has been
 teaching... a new ideology called Godism.  People think it will be the
 end of the Unification movement when Rev. Moon dies, but communism did
 not end when Karl Marx died.  Once people come to their senses and
 realize that nothing man has tried is working they will find God's
 solution.  Unfortunately people will have to suffer much more before
 they come to their senses.  It is really sad that this will happen.

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Date       03-17-92 08:27:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Alan Smith
Subject    Free Will

 Whhhh, what a long message!   Am I getting near the end yet?

 TB> No one has really discovered
 TB> the universal principle that Rev. Moon is teaching.   That principle
 TB> says that if you support the larger purpose you will increase, but
 if TB> you support the smaller purpose you will decline.

 AS> And, as I have previously stated, the premises of sociobiology
 AS> already lead us to an explanation as to why this is so.  They
 AS> lead not only to the same answer as you stated, but also to
 AS> solutions that can be actually applied, I believe.  (Much better
 AS> than "Don't sin" or "Love your neighbor," for example,
 AS> which, though true, cannot be adapted by people for any length
 AS> of time.)

 It appears that the extent of your knowledge about Rev. Moon's teaching
 is limited to the idea that he simply says "Don't sin"  or "Love your
 neighbor."    I encourage to look deeper.   If Rev. Moon is coming to
 fulfill the role of Messiah, then he must make ALL things new.  He must
 restore/recreate the individual, family, society, nation and world. He
 must reunite people of all races and nationalities and ages, and then
 establish a government and economical system that encourages all people
 to take initiative.  He must restore marriage and conjugal love as the
 foundation for these changes to become permanent.  Once True Parents are
 established on earth, the people can be adopted into that family and
 practice living as true brothers and sisters.  Even fallen brothers and
 sisters help each other through college and in business. How much more
 would true brothers and sisters support their parents and each other?

 TB> Rev. Moon clearly proved that if a person lives for the sake of the
 TB> world, the universal principle of living for the greater purpose
 TB> will lift you up.

 AS> Is he a sociobiologist, by any chance?  (just kidding)  but I
 AS> wonder...

 He is many things to many different people.  To some he appears as the
 long awaited return of the Messiah, to others he appears to be the devil
 himself. Some take a middle position and say he is a prophet who is
 working for God while others say he is the anti-christ working for
 Satan.  Some people see him as a great teacher while others are sure
 they know he is a mad man.  Some people call him Dr. Moon and honor him
 for his work to bring about the unity of the scientist and other
 scientific projects like the international highway that he is building
 to connect all the continents of the world.  The 90 mile tunnel between
 South Korea and Japan has been under construction for over 5 years.
 Other people see him as a reverend, a preacher, minister, man of the
 cloth, but his followers see him as the True Father to mankind. One
 thing for sure is that you cannot study this man and conclude he is
 ordinary.

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Date       03-17-92 08:50:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Alan Smith
Subject    Free Will

 AS> Crime on the streets, for example, makes us fearful and
 AS> willing to punish perpetrators more harshly.  Were there less
 AS> crime (more policemen?), criminals would be punished less
 AS> puntatively and would, IMHO, be more likely
 AS> to be able to adapt to society after their release (having less
 AS> resentment of society).

 A good idea.  A major factor that causes people to become criminals is
 peer pressure.  How can we apply peer pressure to encourage people to be
 good?  The real problem is that we feel cheated. For example, we go to
 the bank and get turned down for a loan but we see a more wealthy guy
 getting all the loans he wants.  In our heart, we side with the criminal
 and secretly hope that God will use him as a policeman to get back at
 those people who have denied us equal access to the material possessions
 of the world.  Has anyone really cried and felt remorse when they heard
 about a bank robbery?

 The solution to the problem of unequal distribution of wealth will be
 found in religion.  Until people can recognize God is their parent, they
 will never feel that their neighbors are their brothers and sisters.
 When people adopt the attitude of family on a social, national or world
 wide level, they will apply the peer pressure to those who are greedy
 and selfish.

 Everyone wants love but if you find that your excess wealth is resulting
 in discomfort you will try to get rid of it, and share it in a way it
 will bring you happiness.  If you bought a nice boat and as showing it
 to your friends, parents, and wife and they said "It is nice but you
 could have gotten a smaller one and took the extra money you spent and
 did something public with it"  you would not be so happy.  Then if they
 went another step farther and said they really didn't care to ride in a
 boat that exhibited a public display of greed, you would most likely
 take it back. The point is that society MUST re-prioritize its values
 and place the well being of the whole above the well being of the
 individual. When this attitude catches on and 51% of the people adopt
 such a crazy notion, it will be normal to be crazy. When it become
 normal to think first about the benefit of the whole then everyone can
 have a big boat ....even if there were only a few of them. Because
 people who owned them would be happy to share them with others who had
 the same heart of ownership to care for that boat like the true owner.
 What if you loaned your car to your neighbor and every time they
 returned it they left it full of gas or put on a new tire or tuned it
 up?  Would you regret letting them use what is yours?  Is man capable of
 adopting such high ideals?

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Date       03-17-92 09:13:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Alan Smith
Subject    Free Will

 AS> TB> Is the inner man the problem?  Can the inner man be fixed by
 AS> changing TB> society?

 AS> Yes, but society cannot be changed without changing the
 AS> individuals of which
 AS> it is composed.  Since man contains within his subconscious both
 AS> individual-suri
 AS> al and group-survival instincts, both the individual and society
 AS> must be worked on simultaneously, I believe.

 That is exactly the reason we need to restore the family. Originally an
 individual should be educated correctly from the beginning. There would
 be no need for a change later if we got it right the first time. The
 family is the institution created by God for people to learn and develop
 the types of love that one must realize in order to fully mature.  In
 the family the individual learns 3 types of love:  vertical ( filial
 piety for parents), horizontal ( sibling and later conjugal love toward
 those on the same level ), parental (love a parent has for their child).
 Until a person experiences these kinds of love they cannot qualify to
 live in "heaven."   Heaven is reserved for graduate students.  For this
 reason we can realize that Jesus told the thief that they would go to
 "paradise."   Heaven can not be occupied by people who have not
 experienced marriage and children.  This shakes up fundamental
 christians, but nevertheless they will eventually find out this is true.
 The problem with finding out later is that it is difficult, extremely
 difficult, to learn the "course requirements" once you are in the
 spiritual world.  You can no longer have children once you are dead.
 This is why the crucifixion of Jesus Christ was the worse tragedy in
 history.  God's only true son could not become a parent.  Jesus was
 denied the right to graduate.  Jesus will have to learn and experience
 marital and parental love in an indirect manner.

 TB> Is this the same idea that communism experimented with for
 TB> over 70 years?

 AS> The Russian masses supported the revolution at the time because
 AS> they hoped for a better life, and the concept of "commune-ism"
 AS> seemed to be an ideal situation, especially in comparison to
 AS> what they had before.  Greed and power
 AS> struggles soon predominated over the wise application of the
 AS> basic ideals (as happens today in communes (and almost every
 AS> other organizations) in America)
 AS>
 AS> My answer would be that Russia experimented with power struggles
 AS> and greed, using the ideals behind "commune-ism" only as a
 AS> pretense to support their authority.  Neither Communism, nor
 AS> even the ideals behind "commune-ism," will
 AS> work without taking into account the personal-survival instincts
 AS> of man, IMO.

 So how can we change the individual.  We have proof that the individual
 does not change as a result of social change.  Why could we assume that
 the individual would change as a result of biological changes?  We have
 to realize that change is an individual decision.  Once enough people
 decide to change it will apply social pressure than can more rapidly
 speed up the process of other people making the same decision.
 Multiplication of goodness can work equally as well as the
 multiplication of evil.

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Date       03-17-92 11:28:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Walter Copes
Subject    Adam                  1/

 WC>     Adam's "little boyhood prank" occurred when Adam was a full
 WC> grown adult and married at that. He was created that way you
 WC> know. Adam did not have a childhood and be required to grow into
 WC> adulthood. God created him as a full adult in every aspect.

 Pure irrational speculation.   Every human begins as a child and grows
 to maturity.  Adam and Eve were no exception.  There is simply no way
 they could have appeared suddenly with a perfected physical body and
 matured emotions.

 TB>Adam and Eve were very young when Lucifer seduced Eve and taught
 TB>her about sexual love.

 WC>     Adam and Ever were created as fully functioning adults in
 WC> every  aspect. Lucifer's temptation of Eve did not involve
 WC> anything of a  sexual nature. We have been down this road
 WC> before. The entire concept is extra-biblical. Eve was certainly
 WC> tempted but it did not involve  sex in any way, shape, or form.

                             before the fall:
 GEN 2:25  And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not
           ashamed.
                                the fall:
 GEN 3:6   And when the woman saw that the tree [was] good for food, and
           that it [was] pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired
           to make [one] wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did
           eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.
                              after the fall
 GEN 3:7   And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that
           they [were] naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and
           made themselves aprons.
 GEN 3:10  And he said, I heard thy voice in the garden, and I was
           afraid, because I [was] naked; and I hid myself.

 TB>I think the Police call such individuals "chicken hawks." Luci-
 TB>fer was a pettifile.
 WC>     What is your scriptural evidence that Eve was a little girl
 WC> rather than an adult.

 See above.

 TB>And after he finished with Eve here eyes were opened and she knew
 TB>good from evil.

 WC>     That is because she ate the fruit of the tree of knowledge
 WC> of  good and evil. Sex was not involved.

 You told me the tree of life was symbolical.  How do you propose to
 explain that the tree beside it was literal.  The tree of knowledge of
 good and evil was a symbolical tree.  Real fruit does not grow on
 symbolical trees.

 MAT 15:11   Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that
 which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man.

 WC> TB>She knew that Adam was supposed to be her husband
 WC>
 WC>     Adam WAS her husband when the incident. You say she was not.
 WC> God  said that Adam and Eve were married. That is a direct
 WC> contradiction of  which you claim does not exist. I will take
 WC> God's proven word.

 Prove to me from God's word that God blessed them in marriage. There
 is no account of God blessing Adam and Eve in marriage. They were not
 married. In fact the hope of christianity is the second coming so that
 the marriage of the Lamb ( last Adam ) can take place.

 TB>but she did not repent
 WC> There is no scriptural evidence that Eve repented.
 That is what I said.  "she did not repent."

 TB>she went and taught him about sexual love.

 WC>     This is extra-biblical. It is pure imagination. There is
 WC> nothing  in Scripture to support such a belief.

 Was it Abraham's imagination when God told him to drain the blood from
 his foreskin as an act of purification through the rite of circumcision?

 Was it Jesus' imagination when he said that fallen man was the offspring
 of the serpent and of their father the devil?

 TB>This infected him with the same shame and guilt she wanted to rid
 TB>herself from.

 WC>     You have absolutely no Scripture that this is correct.

 Read the story again.  Eve took the fruit then felt guilty and then went
 and gave it to Adam.  When he ate he then felt guilty.  Why do you
 suppose Eve wanted Adam to eat the fruit?  Surely she thought that if he
 entered into a conjugal relationship with her that she would be rid of
 the guilt that caused her to cover here sexual parts.

 I can't believe you have been over this material at least a dozen times
 and still can't understand and ACCEPT it.   It is obviously to the
 majority of Soviet high school students when they hear this taught just
 once.  You must have some demonic spirit blocking your judgement.  Pray
 for liberation.

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Date       03-17-92 11:46:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Walter Copes
Subject    Adam                  1/

 WC> WC>That is why I know that the marriage supper of the Lamb has
 WC> yet WC>to occur.
 WC>
 WC> TB>MAT 12:39
 WC>
 WC> Matthew 12:39 But he answered and said unto them, An evil and
 WC> adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no
 WC> sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:
 WC>
 WC>     This verse is unrelated to the discussion of the marriage
 WC> supper  of the Lamb. It does not support your position in any
 WC> way. You are  avoiding the subject and attempting to divert
 WC> attention away from the  subject at hand.

 Oh but this IS related.  You keep saying you want to see a sign, a
 miracle, you say you will believe when Rev. Moon walks on water etc.
 But Jesus clearly said that "an evil and adulterous generation seeketh
 after a sign; and there shall be NO sign given to it."  There you have
 it straight from the words of your master.  Can you believe him?

 The marriage of the Lamb has taken place and you were looking for a
 sign but none was given.  You missed it.  But there is still hope.  You
 have less than 4 months to get your act together and attend the final
 blessing the Messiah will perform.  Less than 4 months Walter.  tick tok
 tick tok  time is running out.  You will spend eternity with your
 decision.  You better take my advice and get on those knees and ask God
 for guidance.  Prayer won't cost you anything but if you do not get this
 blessing you will regret it for eternity.

 WC>     If you are speaking of the Rev. Moon are you referring to
 WC> wife number three or the previous ones? BTW why were there three
 WC> instead of just one. I have not seen any literature on what
 WC> happened.

 It is not unusual for a man of God to have difficulty in finding a woman
 who will support him under the difficult situations they must live.
 Check on Noah and also take note of the life of Jacob and you may find
 the answer you are seeking.


 WC> TB>The marriage of the Lamb took place in 1960

 WC>     Not in your wildest dreams did the marriage supper of the
 WC> Lamb  take place in 1960. That would be 32 years ago. The
 WC> marriage supper of  the Lamb takes place during the seven years
 WC> of tribulation as de- scribed in the Book of Revelation. Since
 WC> Jesus has not returned to earth in clouds in power and glory and
 WC> since He has not established  His Millennial Kingdom the
 WC> marriage supper of the Lamb has not oc- curred. You say yes, the
 WC> Bible says not.

 You are trying to make a guess about something that the Bible says not
 even Jesus himself knows.  The only reason I can tell you is because I
 found out it has already happened.  I'm not making this up just so I can
 look stupid.  Had God not called me and shown me these things I would
 NEVER have read NOR entered a message into this conference.  I would not
 be talking about something that make me look stranger than a man once
 did when he was building a boat on top of a mountain.

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Date       03-17-92 12:00:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Walter Copes
Subject    Adam                  2/

 WC>     You are grasping at straws. At a max no more than 300,000
 WC> million have died as a result of these wars. However, the
 WC> population of the earth is 5 billion. The number of dead from
 WC> such wars would have to number in the neighborhood of 4 billion.
 WC> That comes out to be less than .01%. This is a far cry from even
 WC> 50% much less the 80% which  will die during the 7 years of
 WC> tribulation.

 Misunderstanding AND miscalculation.  If you multiply a mistake you only
 get a larger one.  The Jewish people had their excuse.  They said Jesus
 could not be the Christ because Elijah had not returned.  You say Christ
 can not come now because an insufficient number of people have died of
 war. I find your excuse rather weak. I hope God will show more leniency.

 WC> TB>He certainly has his place as God's third child but it is
 WC> possible  TB>for God to have another child and Jesus will
 WC> support the youngest  TB>member of the "Christ" family.   Will
 WC> You?

 WC>     Now I see. You have used the term "Christ family" on two
 WC> occa- sions now. What you are advocating is nothing more than a
 WC> variation on the New Age doctrine that everyone can become a
 WC> christ.

 What do you understand when you read this?

 ROM 8:29    For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate [to be]
             conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the
             firstborn among many brethren.

 1JO 3:2     Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet
             appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall
             appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

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Date       03-17-92 12:08:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Walter Copes
Subject    Atoning Blood

 TB>I don't believe you.  If someone murdered your child then repent-
 TB>ed, would the blood of Jesus bring your child back to life?

 WC>     I am not God and my Child is not Jesus who is God manifested
 WC> in flesh. Your dislike of this does not alter what the Scripture
 WC> says.

 Let's talk about side stepping an issue shall we?

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Date       03-17-92 12:10:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Walter Copes
Subject    Christianity

 WC> TB>I suppose I will have to confess that for me direct spiritual
 WC> TB>experience with the living God take presidency over unwritten
 WC> con- TB>junctures. <grin>
 WC>
 WC>     Such careless actions without lead to demonic deception
 WC> because the individual is unwilling to apply the biblical test
 WC> to such spirit- ual contact. Thus they are almost always led
 WC> into spiritual darkness. Only a few ever escape to find truth.

 You should be happy to meet one who "escaped to find truth."   Why won't
 you admit that the Jewish applied the "biblical test" to Jesus and they
 still reached the mistaken conclusion that Jesus was not the Messiah.

 Do you have any idea how much this frustrated Jesus?

 JOH 5:39     Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal
 life: and they are they which testify of me.

 How do you truly expect to depend on scripture alone to help you make
 the right decision?  If that was all that was necessary do you think
 Jesus would have said:

 MAR 13:33Take ye heed, watch and pray: for ye know not when the time is.

 And you know this too:   1TH 5:17    Pray without ceasing.

 What would be the purpose of prayer if everything one needed to know was
 written in scripture?

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Date       03-17-92 12:21:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Walter Copes
Subject    Marriage              1/

 WC>     There was no logic involved. There was only sarcasm
 WC> employed.

 Yes, you are correct.  If truth were enough to save mankind God would
 not have needed to send His son. He could just place King James Bibles
 in all hotel rooms.<grin>  Fallen man has lost love. Unfortunately I
 tend to clobber you with truth and forget that you also need love to
 understand my message.  I admit I am an inadequate teacher.

 WC>     You must take us all for fools, Terry. You posted a number
 WC> of messages taken from the Divine Principle. I went through each
 WC> one and  examined it in light of Scripture. I carefully pointed
 WC> out where it  was contradicted by Scripture. The Divine
 WC> Principle says one thing the  Scripture says the opposite.
 WC> Therefore the Divine Principle does in  fact contradict. By your
 WC> own admission it is supposed to replace it.  So long as the
 WC> Scripture remains God's word the Divine Principle  stands
 WC> condemned by it.

 Someday you will understand.  The Divine Principle does not seek to
 "replace" scripture.  It explains scripture as Jesus promised:

 JOH 16:25   These things have I spoken unto you in proverbs: but the
 time cometh, when I shall no more speak unto you in proverbs, but I
 shall shew you plainly of the Father.

 The Divine Principle is Jesus' revelation to Rev. Sun Myung Moon.

 WC>     However, I have it in writing where you said that John the
 WC> Bap- tist was NOT Elijah. So which is it? Is John the Baptist
 WC> Elijah or are  they two separate individual men?

 I stand by Jesus words:

 MAT 11:13   For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John.
 MAT 11:14   And if ye will receive [it], this is Elias, which was for to
             come.

 WC>     I did not challenge you earlier on this point. Where in
 WC> Scripture  does it say that John the Baptist had the mission of
 WC> Elijah?

 LUK 1:13    But the angel said unto him, Fear not, Zacharias: for thy
 prayer is heard; and thy wife Elisabeth shall bear thee a son, and thou
 shalt call his name John.
 LUK 1:17  And he [John] shall go before him [the Lord] in the spirit and
 power of Elias, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and
 the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people
 prepared for the Lord.

 WC>     Where in Scripture does one find that Elijah was in the
 WC> spirit  world working with Jesus and John?

 MAT 17:3    And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias
 talking with him. MAT 17:4    Then answered Peter, and said unto Jesus,
 Lord, it is good for us to be here: if thou wilt, let us make here three
 tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias. MAR 9:4
 And there appeared unto them Elias with Moses: and they were talking
 with Jesus. MAR 9:5     And Peter answered and said to Jesus, Master, it
 is good for us to be here: and let us make three tabernacles; one for
 thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias. LUK 9:30    And, behold,
 there talked with him two men, which were Moses and Elias: LUK 9:33
 And it came to pass, as they departed from him, Peter said unto Jesus,
 Master, it is good for us to be here: and let us make three tabernacles;
 one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias: not knowing what he
 said.

 TB> The second coming of Christ will take place through his birth.

 WC>     Scripture contradicts you on this one also.

 From what is shown in the examples of Elijah's second coming and Jesus'
 coming, both of which were the direct work of God, one cannot help but
 give serious thought to the prophecies for the Second Coming. In
 summary, the New Testament not only contains prophecies that say Christ
 will come as a judge amidst glory on a cloud from heaven, but also some
 that say he will come again just as he did the first time, quite
 contrary to the other type of prophecy of his coming on the clouds. We
 read in Luke 17:24,25 that Jesus, anticipating what was going to happen
 at the Second Coming, said," '...so will the Son of man be in his day.
 But first he must suffer many things and be rejected by this
 generation.'"  If the Lord should come again amidst power and glory,
 with the trumpet call of the archangel, who would dare deny and
 persecute him?  Would you persecute him? Today, many faithful Christians
 and churches are looking up to the sky, waiting for the Lord to come on
 the clouds.  If he were to come on the clouds, there would be no reason
 for him to be persecuted. However, if he does not come on a literal
 cloud, and instead comes in the flesh, as at the First Coming, then it
 becomes apparent why Jesus said he would first suffer before finally
 being recognized (Lk 17:24,25). Revelation 12:5 says," ...she brought
 forth a male child, one who is to rule all the nations with a rod of
 iron, but her child was caught up to God and to his throne."  The man
 who will rule the world with a rod of iron is the coming Lord.  In this
 verse, it says that he will be born of a woman.

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Date       03-17-92 12:38:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Walter Copes
Subject    Marriage              2/

 WC> You have bought into a system which is looking for another
 WC> Jesus. However, there is no other Jesus. There is only the one
 WC> and only. He and only He will return as Messiah. All others are
 WC> false messiahs and false prophets.

 REV 2:7     He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto
 the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of
 life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God. REV 2:17    He that
 hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To
 him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will
 give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no
 man knoweth saving he that receiveth [it]. REV 2:26 And he that
 overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power
 over the nations:

 Sounds like Jesus is passing the baton to someone.

 TB>God can have as many sons as He wants.

 WC>     You are correct. He has millions of children today. But He
 WC> has only one only begotten Son.

 So Adam was not begotten?  Why was Jesus called the last Adam?

 WC> the dead in Christ shall  rise first: Then we which are alive
 WC> [and] remain shall be caught up  together with them in the
 WC> clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so  shall we ever be
 WC> with the Lord." Thus it matters not whether or not I  am alive
 WC> or in the grave. I will be with Him forever.

 So you think "air" means the literal air?

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Date       03-17-92 12:44:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Walter Copes
Subject    Marriage              3/

 WC>     Absolutely they were prophecies. One concerned the First
 WC> Advent. The other the Second Advent. There is no contradiction
 WC> in interpreta- tion whatsoever.

 You continue to ignore Jesus' own words:

 MAT 11:13   For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John.

 Jesus clearly said that there were NO prophecies made that applied past
 the time of John the Baptist.  The second coming will take place after
 John. There was no prophecy about any second coming. You misunderstood.

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Date       03-17-92 12:47:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Philip Brown
Subject    SOUL

 PB>  PB>     The word in the Greek used for "body" is SOMA, and it
 PB>  PB> *always* refers to a physical body, never to a spirit.
 PB>  PB> (See 1 Thess. 5:23 and James 2:26.)
 PB>
 PB>  TB> Seems Col 2:9 contradicts JOH 4:24
 PB>  TB>
 PB>  TB>     God [is] a Spirit: and they that worship him
 PB>  TB>     must worship [him] in spirit and in truth.
 PB>
 PB>     No.  Jesus has BOTH a spirit and a body, just like you and I
 PB> have both a spirit and a body.

 So should we worship the spirit of Jesus and not his body too?

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Date       03-17-92 12:49:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Les Wilcox
Subject     The Second Coming

 LW> "This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will
 LW> come back in the same way you  have seen him go into heaven."
 LW> [Acts 1:11]

 I saw Jesus go as a suffering misunderstood man who was being rejected
 and jeered by the very people he came to save.∙That is exactly the way
 Rev. Moon has returned.

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Date       03-17-92 12:50:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Carla Rygula
Subject    Trinity Exposed

 CR> > This is starting to get interesting.
 CR> >
 CR>
 CR> Sure its getting interesting to you, so as long as you don't
 CR> have to deal with the subject at hand..

 ha ha ha   You hit the nail on the head !

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Date       03-17-92 20:32:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Steven Headley
Subject    D&D

 SH>   Well, there is still no scriptural backing that one need to
 SH> "pray   with tears."  You have tried to avoid this, but the

 LUK 22:44   And being in an agony he prayed more earnestly: and his
 sweat was as it were great drops of blood falling down to the ground.

 SH> point is still   there. Futhermore, if you need to deepen your
 SH> prayer life through   "praying with tears," then go for it.

 I'm giving the straight scoop if you are disturbed by it then you aren't
 ready to deepen your relationship with God.   Why don't you tell us how
 to increase our sensitivity and our relationship with God.  Anyone can
 complain.

 SH>   Once again, this is lacking in any type of scriptural backing.
 SH> I am   waiting for you to supply it, Terry.  I have found that
 SH> people that   follow a false messiah, or false teacher have the
 SH> problem of avoiding   question.

 And people that are sitting in their chair criticising everything they
 read have no heroes.  Why don't you offer us your solution for reuniting
 man with God.  I know why.  It is because you don't have a solution, you
 only have a philosophy that says wait for Jesus to come and fix
 everything for us.   He will have something to say to those with that
 philosophy. In fact he already said it I'll just quote him:

 MAT 21:28    But what think ye? A [certain] man had two sons; and he
 came to the first, and said, Son, go work to day in my vineyard. MAT
 21:29   He answered and said, I will not: but afterward he repented, and
 went. MAT 21:30   And he came to the second, and said likewise. And he
 answered and said, I [go], sir: and went not. MAT 21:31   Whether of
 them twain did the will of [his] father? They say unto him, The first.
 Jesus saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That the publicans and the
 harlots go into the kingdom of God before you.

 SH>    That may or may not be true.  Whether you met God is totally
 SH> in    doubt.  I wonder how God feels about someone distorting
 SH> His words??    If your encounter moved you that much, then I
 SH> wonder why you have    abandoned what God says.

 Keep wondering and you may wake up to the reality that I have not
 abandoned God nor anything He has said.

 SH>    BTW - I'll let you in on a little secret - God's word does
 SH> not speak    to emotions - it speaks to the will.

 Nonsense ! Love is our deepest emotion and the majority of God's word is
 directed at restoring God centered love in the hearts of fallen man. In
 fact Jesus said you don't need the ten commandments if you will fulfill
 just two of them... and BOTH of them spoke to our emotions:

 LUK 10:27   And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with
 all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and
 with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself. LUK 10:28   And he said
 unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.

 SH>    Excuse us poor people that need you to share YOUR (not God's)
 SH>    knowledge with us.

 If you don't need my knowledge of God then why would you be reading my
 messages?  If you know so you probably don't need the Messiah either.

 SH>   Thanks for making my point.  You feel that you are a "doctor"
 SH> to us   "spiritually sick" people.  You have the answers, we
 SH> don't.  I   couldn't have said it better.

 COL 3:16    Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom;
 teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual
 songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.

 SH>   Once AGAIN - your advice is NOT scriptural.  Write it a
 SH> hundred times   if you can't understand it.  When the disciples
 SH> asked Christ how to   pray, He did not say "pray with tears."

 No, he showed them by example:

 LUK 22:44   And being in an agony he prayed more earnestly: and his
 sweat was as it were great drops of blood falling down to the ground.

 LUK 7:44    And he turned to the woman, and said unto Simon, Seest thou
 this woman? I entered into thine house, thou gavest me no water for my
 feet: but she hath washed my feet with tears, and wiped [them] wit the
 hairs of her head. LUK 7:45    Thou gavest me no kiss: but this woman
 since the time I came in hath not ceased to kiss my feet. LUK 7:46    My
 head with oil thou didst not anoint: but this woman hath anointed my
 feet with ointment. LUK 7:47 Wherefore I say unto thee, Her sins, which
 are many, are forgiven; for she loved much: but to whom little is
 forgiven, [the same] loveth little. LUK 7:48    And he said unto her,
 Thy sins are forgiven.

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Date       03-17-92 21:08:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Steven Headley
Subject    D&D

 SH>    Hardly.  It is amazing that the people that followed Christ
 SH> were the    ones that listened to what God's word says, and not
 SH> what man said.    The people searched the scriptures, and found
 SH> that Christ was the    Messiah because HE fulfilled the
 SH> prophecies concerning Him.

 I was wondering if you have even read the Bible and now I have concluded
 you have not.  Let me show you something:

 JOH 5:39     Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal
 life: and they are they which testify of me.

 The people who were the most prepared and most learned in the scripture
 did not recognize Jesus at all. ( MAT 23:14 MAT 23:15 MAT 23:16 MAT
 23:23 MAT 23:25 MAT 23:27 MAT 23:29 MAT 23:29 MAT 24:19 MAT 26:24 LUK
 6:24 LUK 6:25 LUK 6:26 LUK 10:13 LUK 11:42 LUK 11:43 ) On the contrary,
 the people who realized Jesus was the Messiah did not even know the most
 fundamental prophecy about the coming of Christ. Here, read it for
 yourself:

 MAT 17:10   And his disciples asked him, saying, Why then say the
 scribes that Elias must first come? MAR 9:11     And they asked him,
 saying, Why say the scribes that Elias must first come? JOH 1:25    And
 they asked him, and said unto him, Why baptizest thou then, if thou be
 not that Christ, nor Elias, neither that prophet?

 TB> Why do you think Christ, at the second coming, should just read the
 TB> New Testament to you?

 SH>    Ah, but we KNOW, through God's words, what is going to happen
 SH> when  Christ returns.

 Yeah, just like the scribes and pharisees who knew it all yet they
 failed miserably.

 SH>    Once again you continually think that you are spiritually
 SH> superior    to almost everyone.  When you compare Judaism to
 SH> having a High    school diploma, and Christianity to having a
 SH> Master's degree, it    simply shows your intent of being
 SH> superior, nad not caring what God    says about the issue.

 I do have a new revelation. Jesus Christ appeared to my minister Rev.
 Moon on Easter Sunday morning 1935 and began to give him this teaching
 that I have been posting.

 SH>    Why would I want to come down to hell and visit with you and
 SH> Moon??

 Because that is where God is.  You do not even know that God has been
 suffering in the worse kind of hell since He lost His children.  You
 have no idea of the suffering heart of God.  You will never know God
 till you pray with tears.

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Date       03-17-92 21:26:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Steven Headley
Subject    HOLY SPIRIT

 SH>   Being that 11 of these "insignificant" men, as you call them
 SH> (there's   that superiority thing again.) turned the world on
 SH> its ear, I would   hardly call them insignificant.

 Which one of them was willing to go to the cross with Jesus?  Had anyone
 went to the cross with Jesus, for his cause, God would have resurrected
 them along with Jesus.

 SH>    What your position lacks is the understanding of God's love
 SH> for the    world.  You quote John 3:16, but in doing so you
 SH> forget that the    only way that was available for man to be
 SH> able to return to God was    through a sacrifice.  That
 SH> sacrifice was Christ.  Throughout the    ages, we know that God
 SH> supplied the sacrifice for our sins.  In this    case, the
 SH> sacrifice was His son.  If you don't think that was    enough,
 SH> then that is your right.  And you have the right to be    wrong.

 Let's review what you just wrote in light of those accusations that I am
 claiming spiritual superiority.

 What you NEED to know is that God had a much bigger plan that could have
 been carried out had the chosen people found faith in His son.  Rather
 than allowing fallen man to remain in sin and suffering for 2,000 more
 years, God wanted Jesus to celebrate the marriage of the Lamb, father
 sinless children, establish a God centered Ideal family and adopt fallen
 man into the direct lineage of God.  Through that adoption fallen man
 could have been sanctified.  That means the procreation of sinless
 children would have been long forgotten by now.

 SH>   The Messiah has not yet returned.  Only false messiahs.

 If you will humble yourself in prayer you will be astonished at what God
 can teach you.

 SH>   Like most of the things that you write, this makes no sense
 SH>   whatsoever.

 Attacking me personally will not strengthen your position.  It does not
 make your house look better if you break your neighbor's windows.

 SH>   Well, at least we have established that you do not believe in
 SH> God's   omnipotence, or His word.

 So explain to me how can suffering and evil exist if God is all powerful
 and good.

 BTW you have not established that I do not believe in God's word, you
 have only concluded that I don't agree with your interpretation of His
 word.

 SH>   It is simple Terry.  God's people have always been those who
 SH> seek   Him, and know His will.  When a person comes and says
 SH> that they are   the Messiah, and don't have the credentials,
 SH> then they are a false   Messiah.

 So what credentials are you looking for.  Must Christ come to the earth
 like the astronauts who returned from the moon?  Is that what makes a
 messiah?

 SH>   Unlike Christ, Moon doesn't have the credentials.

 Either he does not have them or you are not qualified to see them.

 You have clearly prejudged Rev. Moon.

 1CO 4:5     Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord
 come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and
 will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man
 have praise of God.

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Date       03-17-92 21:52:00
From       Terry Blount
To         John Williams
Subject    The Evolution of the Chur

 JW>        Religion is fading and fading fast.  Remember, what was
 JW> true in one point in time is not nessiceraly true now, even if
 JW> the Bible says it.  We are still a maturing species.  If we
 JW> expect to mature with God, our concept of God must mature with
 JW> society.        And remember - the Pharasees thought they were
 JW> doing exactly what God wanted, untill God told them it wasn't so.

 I really don't expect your message will be very well received by most of
 the folk who participate with this conference,  however I strongly
 agree with many of the points you have made.  Religion is fading and
 fading fast. The pharasees thought they were doing exactly what God
 wanted but they were opposing the will of God.  Let me post you a
 section of the first few pages of a new revelation that was received
 from God by Rev. Sun Myung Moon:

 God is a living and active God.  Both throughout history and in the
 minds of people, God's active providence has left its mark.  Then, what
 of man, the object of this living God's dispensation; what has man been
 like throughout history?  At each stage in history, God has had to deal
 with man according to man's spiritual state and intellectual level, has
 man always remained the same internally, or has he been progressing and
 constantly improving?  If man had not fallen, he would have reflected
 God's character (Jn 14:20) and perfection (Mt 5:48), and thus God would
 have been able to relate to him directly.  However, Adam and Eve fell
 and became embodiments of sin and evil instead of becoming the persons
 that God had originally envisioned.  If we were to speak of how man's
 spirituality and intellect were affected by this state of separation and
 fall, we could say that they were reduced to a very base state.

 Through God's Dispensation for Restoration, the spirituality and
 intellect of fallen people have gradually developed.  As man's spiritual
 and intellectual levels have developed in each age, God has been able to
 revise accordingly the means of educating people and relating to them.
 for example, in Abraham's time, when man's spirituality and intellect
 were extremely low, God had to have people come closer to him through
 the offering of sacrifices.  The people of that time were too immature
 to respond to laws and commandments. Several hundred years later, at the
 time of Moses, God carried out the dispensation through the Law.  At
 Jesus' time, instead of repeating the same dispensation through laws or
 commandments, God worked in a new way to bring the people closer to him,
 by giving the Gospel, on a level appropriate for the spirituality of the
 people of that age.

 The fact that the Jewish people, who so devoutly believed in God, did
 not recognize his son, Jesus, as the savior is a crucial point in the
 Dispensation for Restoration.  Why were they unable to recognize his
 son, Jesus, as the savior is a crucial point in the Dispensation for
 Restoration.  Why were they unable to recognize him?  In that age, the
 people of Israel followed God through obedience to laws, but then God
 began to approach the people through Jesus himself, by means of the new
 dispensation of the Gospel.  In light of these historical facts, we can
 see that as man's spirituality and intellect develop, God has always
 adopted a correspondingly developed method to reach man.  The objects of
 the living God and his dispensation are not like fossils, but rather are
 persons who are very much alive and active.

 Then, who is the present focus of God's dispensation?  It is no the
 people of Jesus' time, nor the people of Moses' age, nor primitive man
 still further back.  It is contemporary man, living here and now.  Yet
 we cannot deny that today most young people are not interested in the
 churches and that people in general are turning away.  The rational and
 scientific emphasis of people today demands a clearer and deeper
 understanding of the truth and an explanation of the seeming
 contradictions in religious teachings and practices before they will
 take up a religious way of life.  As we have seen in God's historical
 process of restoration, God is alive and working, so we can know that
 God will definitely give man a new expression of truth, one that can
 lead the people of this age to salvation and a new age.

 Today, many difficult questions arise during an examination of the
 Bible.  For example, what is the proper relationship of God, Jesus, and
 man; what is the correct understanding of resurrection and the Last
 Days; why must Jesus return; and when and how will he return? Answers to
 all of these have been given in parables and symbols but they have yet
 to be clearly explained.

 We read in John 16:25 that Jesus said, "'I have said this to you in
 figures; the hour is coming when I shall no longer speak to you in
 figures but tell you plainly of the Father.'"  In John 16:12,13 we read
 that he also said, "'I have yet many things to say to you, but you
 cannot bear them now.  When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you
 into all truth; for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever
 he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are
 to come.'"  And in Revelation 10:11 we read, "'You must again prophesy
 about many peoples and nations and tongues and kings.'"  Each of these
 passages indicates that in the Last Days a new expression of the truth
 will be given.

 However, since it will be a new revelation, there will be some aspects
 which may not be understood in light of conventional doctrine or
 tradition.  For example, even though Jesus' teachings were based on the
 Old Testament, the people of his time were bound to such a literal
 interpretation of the Old Testament that they could not understand
 Jesus.  It was for this reason that Jesus said, "' ... new wine must be
 put into fresh wineskins'" (Lk 5:38); he was teaching them that they had
 to make themselves new if they were to receive the new words.

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Date       03-17-92 22:02:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Dale Robertson
Subject        THE GREAT CONTROVROVE


 TB> So why do we believe that Jesus of Nazareth was the only person that
     was able to resist sin?  If estimations are correct that over
     billion people have lived, doesn't it seem rather unlikely that if
     everyone were born like Christ he would be the ONLY one to resist
     sin?

 DR> It might sound impossible but he was the only one to resist sin. I
 DR> don't know why that is so hard to grasp for someone who reads his
 DR> life story.

 You missed the point.  Why is Jesus the only one that could do this.  We
 all ( well most of us ) know that Jesus did not sin. But if everyone in
 history was born exactly as like Jesus, sinless as Jesus, why was no
 other person capable of attaining perfection.  There have been an
 estimated 25 billion people who have walked the face of the earth. Why
 was Jesus the only one that could attain perfection?

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Date       03-17-92 22:07:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Steven Headley
Subject    Zach

 SH>   Really??  Did the Messiah Moon come from the clouds??

 Yes, he landed in a 747 that originated in the East.

 SH> TB> JOH 13:34   A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love
 SH> one another;
 SH> TB> as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.
 SH>
 SH>     Is this really a totally "new" commandment, or jsut a
 SH> restatement     of Lev 19:18?

 So you don't approve of the term "new" being used by Jesus?  Are you
 saying that Jesus didn't know he was repeating the Leviticus?

 SH>     Who is doing the talking in this verse, Terry??  What people
 SH> may perceive as a new doctrine may not be.

 So your point is that Jesus taught nothing new.  He simply read from the
 Old Testament but the people really never caught on to what he was
 doing. ....well they still have not caught on because there is an entire
 testament appended to the old one AND it contains many new concepts and
 truths.

 TB> As you correctly pointed out, the antichrist does NOT confess Jesus
 TB> Christ came in the flesh.  I tell you that not only Jesus Christ
 came in TB> the flesh, but ALSO the second coming of Christ will be in
 the flesh. TB> It would appear that your position that Christ will
 return through the TB> ozone hole is closer to the definition of what an
 antichrist is.

 SH>   How so??  The Bible says, in many places, that Christ will
 SH> return   from the clouds.  That's what the Bible says.  The
 SH> questionthen   becomes "Why do you want to ignore what God
 SH> says?"

 Then how will the Second Coming of Christ take place?  In considering
 this, let us first look at the second coming of Elijah.  In fact, the
 second coming of Elijah is the clearest example that God has given us
 related to how Christ will come again.

 Through the prophet Malachi, God promised to send Elijah again, before
 the coming of the Messiah (Mal 4:5).  So Israelites of that time who
 were waiting for the Messiah were actually waiting for the second coming
 of Elijah, because he was to precede the Messiah.  Because the second
 coming of Elijah was to be the return of the Elijah who had ascended
 into heaven, the people believed that Elijah would surely descend from
 heaven.  Yet, Jesus clearly declared that John the Baptist, who was born
 on earth, was Elijah (Mt 11:14; 17:13). However, that the second coming
 of Elijah took place through John the Baptist does not mean that Elijah,
 himself, was born again as John the Baptist.  Elijah was in the spirit
 world, helping John the Baptist, who was on earth, since John was born
 with the same mission (Lk 1:17). So, although the mission was the same,
 the person was different.

 Through this lesson learned from the second coming of Elijah, we can
 understand that the Second Coming might possible take place by the
 Lord's being born on earth.  We can also understand that though at the
 Second Coming, the Lord, as the Messiah, will have the same mission as
 Jesus, he may not have the same appearance as Jesus (Jn 14:16,17; 16:12;
 Rev 19:12; 2:17).

 In the Old Testament, we find two contradictory prophecies concerning
 the coming of the Messiah.  In Daniel 7:13, we find the prophecy that
 the Lord would come on the clouds:  "I saw in the night visions, and
 behold, with the clouds of heaven there came one like a son of man..."
 However, the prophet Micah prophesied that the Messiah would be born in
 Bethlehem (Mic 5:2).  Which of these contradictory prophecies did the
 Israelites believe?

 Knowing the influence of the two prophets Daniel and Micah on the
 Israelites, and knowing that the Israelites had great faith in God, we
 know that they were waiting for the Messiah to come from heaven.

 It was for this reason that even after the crucifixion of Jesus, an
 anti-Christian movement arose saying that Jesus could not have been the
 Messiah because he was born in the flesh on earth.  This can be
 understood in the warning by the apostle John:  "For many deceivers have
 gone out into the world, men who will not acknowledge the coming of
 Jesus Christ in the flesh; such a one is the deceiver and the anti-
 christ" (2 Jn 7:8).

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Date       03-18-92 06:43:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Roger Hepworth
Subject    ANYTHING

 RH> grace to grace. I don't expect you to understand this till you
 RH> your self get saved. following that old dog moon will not do it
 RH> he will just lead men to HELL he himself needs to besaved and
 RH> turn to Christ.

 You have made a big mistake.

 MAT 23:15   Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye
 compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make
 him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.


 TB>  I never heard anyone praying for Jesus till I met Rev. Moon

 RH>  Thats because God needs no one to pray for Him just to Him.

 Who are you trying to kid.  You never once thought about God's
 situation.   You have no sensitivity about God. Your thinking clearly
 shows that you have never thought about anyone other that yourself.

 LUK 13:5    I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all
             likewise perish.

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Date       03-18-92 06:52:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Rick Savage
Subject       SATAN

 RS>     Why do we sin?  To gratify self!  That is the cause of the
 RS> world's ills today.  Me do evil things because they want to do
 RS> them, and not becuase of the influence of  a superhuman monster.

 MAT 9:34    But the Pharisees said, He casteth out devils through the
 prince of the devils. MAT 10:8    Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers,
 raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give.
 MAT 12:24   But when the Pharisees heard [it], they said, This [fellow]
 doth not cast out devils, but by Beelzebub the prince of the devils. LUK
 8:33    Then went the devils out of the man, and entered into the swine:
 and the herd ran violently down a steep place into the lake, and were
 choked.

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Date       03-18-92 06:57:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Rick Savage
Subject       SATAN

 RS> Where in the scriptures can you find any reference to "the
 RS> origin and motivation for the birth of fallen man came from a
 RS> fallen angel." You can't because it doesn't exist!  That is a
 RS> pure invention of man in his futile attempt
 RS> to pass off the blame for what he himself is guilty of.

 It hardly relieves one from guilt to find out their father was a
 criminal.

 JOH 8:41    Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be
 not born of fornication; we have one Father, [even] God. JOH 8:42
 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I
 proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent
 me. JOH 8:43    Why do ye not understand my speech? [even] because ye
 cannot hear my word. JOH 8:44    Ye are of [your] father the devil, and
 the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the
 beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him.
 When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and
 the father of it. JOH 8:45    And because I tell [you] the truth, ye
 believe me not.


 Aren't you trying to make the same claim the people tried to make when
 they learned that they were connected to Satan's lineage?

 "We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, [even] God."

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Date       03-18-92 07:02:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Rick Savage
Subject       SATAN

 RS> with his own desires.  If Paul believed in a "fallen angel" who
 RS> was responsible
 RS> for his own human weakness he had plenty of opportunity to blame
 RS> "satan". No, instead Paul was honest enough not to try to find a
 RS> scapegoat to blame the weakness of his own heart and sinful
 RS> desires of the flesh on, but layed the blame where it belonged,
 RS> on our fleshly desires.     We are the only ones we have to
 RS> blame.

 You are correct.  God gave the commandment to man so man is responsible.

 Why do you think in is a "scapegoat" to recognize demonic influence?
 How can you simply ignore Jesus' ministry of exorcism?

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Date       03-18-92 11:31:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Walter Copes
Subject    Armageddon            1/

 WC> TB>Armageddon began Sep. 18 1976 (Chairman Mao was buried that
 WC> day TB>and Rev. Moon delivered a historical speech at Madison
 WC> Square TB>Garden - do you want a copy of that historical speech?
 WC>
 WC>     You can send it if you like but Scripture will still
 WC> contradict your position.

 It appears your mind is already made up.  Do you know the meaning of
 being as a child?   Why can children learn?  Could it be that they have
 open minds?

 WC>  Armageddon occurs at the end of the 7
 WC> years of tribula- tion. The entire army is wiped out by Jesus
 WC> and His army. That army  has come against Jerusalem to destroy
 WC> the Jews. This has not happened.

 You are allowing your speculation about apocalyptical literature to
 cause you to miss the return of Christ.

 WC> Scripture tells us that when
 WC> this happens that the blood will be about  3 feet deep in the
 WC> valley which is called Armageddon

 Can you show me the scripture that alludes to this?   I only found one
 occurrence of Armageddon and nothing about 3 feet of blood.

 WC> TB>Do you have any idea how many people have lost their lives as
 WC> the  TB>result of Communism.
 WC>
 WC>     I sure do. Less than 10%. That would be 500,000,000. That
 WC> many  have not died as a result of war and communist activity
 WC> during this  entire century much less in the past 7 years. The
 WC> number would have to  exceed 3 billion to even come close to the
 WC> number that will die during  the 7 years of tribulation.

 I would think it is most dangerous to place one's salvation on the
 condition that 3 billion people must be murdered first.  Following an
 oriental Messiah appears rather sane compared to putting faith in 3
 billion people getting destroyed before God can send His son.


 WC>     I know exactly the time I am living in. The end is very
 WC> near.  There is very little time left.

 Correct !  You have less than 4 months remaining to prepare for the last
 blessing in August.  Miss this one and you will probably NEVER have a
 chance to receive the blessing of marriage directly from the Messiah.

 WC>     As I pointed out long ago, Terry, all this is
 WC> extra-biblical.  John the Baptist did not fail. Such a position
 WC> cannot be sustained by∙Scripture.

 What do you mean?  It is there clear as day !  John the Baptist
 contradicted Jesus and made Jesus look like a fool.  John the Baptist
 was highly regarded by the Jewish people:

 LUK 3:15∙And as the people were in expectation, and all men mused in
 their hearts of John, whether he were the Christ, or not;

 They thought John the Baptist was the Christ.  But they did not share
 the same regard for Jesus:

 MAT 11:19∙The Son of man came eating and drinking, and they say,
 Behold a man gluttonous, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and
 sinners.

 So when Jesus said John was Elijah and then John denied it, who do you
 think the people believed?∙What would you have believed?∙If Rev. Moon
 told you that Billy Graham was the return of Elijah and Brother Graham
 said he was not, who would you believe?  Same situation.  Exact same
 situation.


 WC> Neither can you sustain
 WC> scripturally the position that  Jesus (who is God) failed in His
 WC> work. It is all extra-biblical. God  does not contradict His
 WC> word. He is immutable (Malachi 3:6).

 I never said Jesus failed.∙I said the people failed to fulfill their
 responsibility to do what Jesus commanded them:  "believe in him"

 If you believed a person was the Messiah would you kill him or would you
 welcome him, support him and unite with him.  What would you do?

 You admit there is war going on in the world even today.  Someone must
 have failed if Jesus did indeed come to do away with the work of the
 devil why is the work of evil still so clearly evident today 2,000 years
 later?

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Date       03-18-92 12:03:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Walter Copes
Subject    Jesus                 1/

 WC>     Since the role of the Son of God is temporary and not
 WC> eternal, why did God choose to reveal Himself through the Son?
 WC> Why did He beget the Son? The primary purpose of the Son is to
 WC> be our Savior. The work of salvation required many roles that
 WC> only a human being could ful- fill, including the roles of
 WC> sacrifice, propitiation, substitute, kinsman-redeemer,
 WC> reconciler, mediator, advocate, high priest, second Adam, and
 WC> example.

 But most essentially and most importantly, the Son is the True Father
 and the starting point of God's lineage on earth.  The True Father will
 marry but he should have married 2,000 years ago and reversed/restored
 Adam's failure to give God grand children.  How can there be a True
 Father without a True Mother?

 MAT 19:4    And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that
 he which made [them] at the beginning made them male and female, MAT
 19:5    And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother,
 and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?


 WC> These terms overlap in may ways, but each repre- sents
 WC> and important aspect of the work of salvation that, according to
 WC> the plan of God, could only be done by a human being.

 True.  Only a pair of living humans can beget sinless grand children for
 God.  God did say to Adam and Eve: "Multiply" didn't He?   Was God
 telling them to go have children of the devil like they did?

 WC>     According to God's plan, the shedding of blood was necessary
 WC> for the remission of man's sins (Hebrews 9:22).

 Jesus did not tell the woman at the well: "Here is a rain check for your
 sins to be forgiven... when I die on the cross it will be validated."

 WC> 6:23). Only God was sinless, but He did not have flesh and
 WC> blood. Therefore, God prepared a body for Himself (Hebrews
 WC> 10:5), that He might live a sinless life in flesh and shed
 WC> innocent blood to save mankind. He became flesh and blood so
 WC> that He could through death defeat the devil and deliver mankind

 If God simply wanted bloodshed why did He prepare a chosen people and
 tell everyone through revelations that Jesus was the Christ. That would
 be rather stupid.  If you want someone to be killed you send them into a
 situation where there is absolutely NO preparation.

 ACS 7:52    Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and
 they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One;
 of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers:


 WC>     Through His humanity, Jesus Christ is able to mediate, that
 WC> is,  to go between man and God and represent man to God.

 Most excellent !  Now you know that Jesus was not God he was between God
 and fallen man.  I certainly hope you are reading why you are copying
 from your pamphlets.  ha ha


 WC> There is no distinction in God, but a  distinction between God
 WC> and the man Christ Jesus. There are NOT two  personalities in
 WC> God; the duality is in Jesus as God and Jesus as man. It is not
 WC> God who mediates between God and man; nor is it "God the  Son"
 WC> who does so. Rather it is the MAN Jesus who mediates; only a
 WC> sinless man could approach a holy God on behalf of mankind.

 This is the most confusing logic I have seen today...  I would have said
 in my life, but unfortunately I have heard this irrational supposition
 before.  How could Jesus not have his own personality ?  He talked to
 God didn't he?  If he talked to God then he could not have been using
 God's mind.  God is not schitzo!   Is He?  Is this what you have been
 trying to tells us?  You say God does not have two personalities but you
 can't offer any logical explanation for the fact that Jesus did talk to
 God and he DID hear God talk back.   I'm sorry I just cannot accept such
 irrational ideas as you have presented.  How can you deal with such
 internal conflict between faith and reason in your own mind?


 WC>     Closely associated with Christ's role as mediator is His
 WC> role as  high priest (Hebrews 2:16-18; 4:14-16). In His
 WC> humanity, Jesus was  tempted just as we are; it is because of

 No matter what the reason, the fact is that God cannot be tempted. Jesus
 was therefore NOT God.

 WC>     Similarly, the Sonship allows Christ to be our advocate, one
 WC> called alongside to help (I John 2:1).

 Finally we do agree.

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Date       03-18-92 12:30:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Walter Copes
Subject    Messiah

 TB>Yes, he arrived in a 747 from the East!  I think 1971 was his
 TB>first visit.

 WC>     That would make it about 21 years ago. Thus we would be 13
 WC> years into the Millennial Reign were it true. However, none of
 WC> the prophe- cies of Revelation have been fulfilled therefore
 WC> Jesus has not come back. And when He does it will be in clouds
 WC> in power and glory.

 Why does Christs arrival in America mark the beginning of the Millennial
 Reign?  What if he had chosen not to come to America and had given the
 opportunity we have to another nation?  Would he have been better
 received?

 TB>I went to Russia and taught about God to 3,000+ college students.
 TB>Who made that possible?

 WC>     You.

 Well, I'm flattered, but I must confess I found out that God had already
 been there before I arrived.  I really did not do anything to open up
 the possibility for millions of Soviets to hear God's word.

 WC> TB>He came and anointed Rev. Sun Myung Moon with the mission of
 WC> TB>establishing Godism on earth.
 WC>
 WC>     It didn't happen. There is no such mission given by God.
 WC> There is no need. His plain is exactly on schedule. It has never
 WC> deviated even a second from His original timing.

 Oh but it DID happen.  And it happened in your lifetime. You have the
 greatest opportunity that anyone has had since Jesus' 3 year ministry
 2,000 years ago.  Actually greater because Jesus did not marry. You now
 can be adopted into the True Parents family.

 TB>It is now up to us to either follow and quickly establish the
 TB>Kingdom of God on earth or sulk and suffer.

 WC>     I am following, Terry. I have been for a long time.

 Yes, for a long time you have been preparing for the second coming of
 Christ, but your heart was not opened and you followed your blind
 guides.   Why you would allow me to come along at the 11 th hour and
 steal away YOUR blessing is even more confusing than that explanation
 you tried to give about Jesus being God, a mediator and the son and
 talking and listening to himself with ONE personality.

 WC> Bible calls it being led of the Spirit.

 You are not being led by any spirit, good or bad.  You are being led by
 the media and the blind guides that you are listening to.  The spirits
 who are surrounding you know who Rev. Moon really is.  They are simply
 not able to get through to you.  Well at least they have been able to
 guide you to read my messages.  But they need to wake you up in the
 middle of the night and tell you that YOU are living in the last days
 and the Messiah is on earth NOW.  I hope they hear this when you read
 it. I hope they have the capability to shake you up real good.

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Date       03-18-92 12:48:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Walter Copes
Subject    Messiahs

 WC>     There is no commandment to the believer to establish even
 WC> attempt to establish a Millennial Kingdom. That is an
 WC> impossibility in any case for anyone other than Jesus to do.

 When Christ returns, look at all the stuff he will have to take care of
 before he can establish the "Millennial Kingdom."   The problems that
 will take up all his time are a result of the failure of religion; the
 failure of christianity to teach people to overcome selfishness.   St.
 Paul clearly said don't break apart into 400 denominations:

 1CO 12:25  That there should be no schism in the body; but [that] the
 members should have the same care one for another.

 But christianity did it anyway !  Everyone is trying to perfect their
 own denomination and leaving the real work undone.  When Christ returns
 he won't have time to build any  "Millennial Kingdom"  he will be too
 busy trying to get christianity off his back for rocking their boat.

 WC> It requires supernatural acts and power. It will happen exactly as
 WC> as prophesied in Scripture. It will NOT happen any other way. That
 WC> is because it would violate God's absolute will.

 Where did you read that God's will required any supernatural acts of
 power?   You are making that up.  I think you call this kind of fantasy
 extra-biblical.

 WC> TB>but his purpose will be to bring peace on earth by laying a
 WC> foun- TB>dation to feed the starving people and solve the hunger
 WC> problems TB>of the world.
 WC>
 WC>     All that will be accomplished the day He establishes His
 WC> Millen- nial Kingdom.

 You mean we can't solve hunger?  Are you hungry?   I'm not.  It seems we
 do have the ability to solve our own hunger.  Now if we only cared about
 those people who are hungry as much as we care about ourselves......

 WC> The ground will again yield its fruit in such abundance that no
 WC> one will ever again go  hungry.

 The technology currently exists to feed the world 10 times over. The
 only ingredient lacking is the will to do it.

 WC>     No doubt. But how many hospitals has he established and
 WC> funded?

 Only one of the most advanced in the world.  It is Japan.  I'll find
 some info if you really want to know more about it.

 WC> How many orphans homes does he fund and operate?

 All humanity is orphaned.  We did not have True Parents before Rev. Moon
 took on that responsibility.

 WC> much does he  spend on helping the homeless? How many schools
 WC> has he established to educate the poor? Has he invested his
 WC> money in fishing to solve the problems of world hunger or to
 WC> make a prophet?

 He is already a prophet !   <grin>
                    ^^

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Date       03-18-92 13:09:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Walter Copes
Subject    Moon                  1/

 WC>     Most obvious, Terry. But you still failed to give us the
 WC> rule of interpretation so that we can distinguish between the
 WC> two. Therefore we have only your word for that this is correct.

 If you come upon something you can't trust then it is time to talk to
 God.  Make the effort to find out the answer.

 WC> However, you over- looked something in your personal
 WC> interpretation of Acts 1:9. Jesus ascended in a literal cloud.

 Oh, like Elijah did?

 WC> He went up in a literal cloud. He will return in the same manner--in
 WC> literal clouds.

 Oh, you mean like Elijah returned?

 MAT 11:13   For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John.
 MAT 11:14   And if ye will receive [it], this is Elias, which was for to
 come.

 WC> TB>REV 17:15   And he saith unto me, The waters which thou
 WC> sawest,  TB>where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and
 WC> multitudes, and nations,  TB>and tongues.
 WC>
 WC>     It is very easy here to know that the waters represented
 WC> people.  The Scripture itself clearly gives the interpretation.
 WC> If you examine  the Scripture a little more closely you will
 WC> discover that this is generally the case. The Scripture itself
 WC> will give the interpretation.

 I see,  like these:

 MAT 25:33   And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats
 on the left.

 WC>     Jesus did not tell us how Elijah returned/returns. Matthew
 WC> 17:12 does not address that question. It only speaks of him as
 WC> already being here not how he came.

 First you have to distinguish the man from the mission.  Jesus was the
 man and Christ was the mission.  Likewise Elijah was the man and his
 mission was to make straight the way of the Lord.   John the Baptist was
 a man and he was born for the same purpose:

 LUK 3:3 And he [John] came into all the country about Jordan, preaching
         the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins; As it is
         written in the book of the words of Esaias the prophet, saying,
         The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of
         the Lord, make his paths straight.

 So history records one man leaving in the clouds and the return of the
 man that had the same mission to fulfill took place through his birth on
 earth.  Now we have another man who left in the same manner as Elijah
 if we look at the ONLY example of how such a man returned we can only
 conclude that we MUST seriously consider the return of Christ could
 possibly take place like the return of the person who came to make
 straight the way of the Lord.


 Here is your assignment:  Fill in the blank space:

     One man goes into the clouds and comes back born of a woman...
 Another man goes into the clouds and comes back _______________

 If the only person who went into the clouds and his return was fulfilled
 through a man born of a woman then there is no precedent for anyone who
 went into the clouds to return from the clouds.

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Date       03-18-92 13:31:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Walter Copes
Subject    Moon                  2/

 WC>     But of course He is. God is a Spirit. He is omnipresent and
 WC> therefore capable of dwelling with every individual at the same
 WC> time.

 So we can all become Christ-like.

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Date       03-18-92 13:32:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Jeff Shirton
Subject    Rev. Moon

 JS> Is it your testimony that Rev. Moon, the third Adam, is sinless,
 JS> and with his 1960 "Marriage of the Lamb", married a sinless
 JS> woman, and now has 13 sinless children, this being God's
 JS> ultimate will?

 Do you really understand the problems of answering such a question
 forthrightly?  If I tell you yes, he is the one, and you do not follow
 then how you can stand before God?  For this reason Jesus said to his
 followers:

 MAT 16:20   Then charged he his disciples that they should tell no man
 that he was Jesus the Christ.

 I will nevertheless tell you that I know Rev. Sun Myung is a man of God
 and you should support him until God reveals to you who he is.  You may
 speed up the coming of this knowledge by going directly to God and
 putting the question to Him.

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Date       03-18-92 13:41:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Walter Copes
Subject    Scripture

 TB>What actions have I, or any of Rev. Moons followers, done to cause
 TB>you to think he is not a man of God?

 WC>     Mainly to reject the written word for "new revelation" which
 WC> in many cases is directly contradicted by Scripture.

 Oh, we are breaking the law of the sabbath or doing something like those
 mischievous followers of Jesus did?

 TB>What do you think a man of God is like?


 WC>     One that loves God and His word. One who believes what God
 WC> means what He says and says what He means. One who knows that
 WC> Jesus is God manifested in flesh. One who knows that Jesus is
 WC> the only Messiah that will ever exist and there will never be
 WC> another. One who has a person- al one on one relationship with
 WC> God and communication flows constantly in both directions. One
 WC> who knows that God NEVER contradicts His word.

 JOH 7:14     Now about the midst of the feast Jesus went up into the
 temple, and taught. JOH 7:15    And the Jews marvelled, saying, How
 knoweth this man letters, having never learned? JOH 7:16    Jesus
 answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.
 JOH 7:17    If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine,
 whether it be of God, or [whether] I speak of myself. JOH 7:18    He
 that speaketh of himself seeketh his own glory: but he that seeketh his
 glory that sent him, the same is true, and no unrighteousness is in him.

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Date       03-18-92 13:45:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Philip Brown
Subject    SOUL

 PB>  TB> So should we worship the spirit of Jesus and not his body
 PB> too?
 PB>     That's like asking, should a person's girl friend marry the
 PB> body of the man, and not his spirit.  When you marry someone,
 PB> you marry all of them.  We should worship the *PERSON* known as
 PB> Jesus (which is both spirit and body.

 Good point but contradictory to scirpture:

 JOH 4:24    God [is] a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship
 [him] in spirit and in truth.

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Date       03-18-92 19:51:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Alan Smith
Subject    Nature of God

 TB> My personal experience makes it hard to believe you.  God is much
 TB> more involved than evolved people are aware.

 AS> Of course, this depends on how you define "God."

 How should we define "God."

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Date       03-18-92 19:52:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Alan Smith
Subject    Why Not

 TB> The electron - proton stimulation must fulfill some basic form of
     joy.

 AS> Why?  You conclusion is based on the notion that joy is the
 AS> motivation behind all actions, just because it is the basis
 AS> of some actions by human beings.

 I do realize the we have many motivating forces.  The power behind the
 communist ideology was based on resentment.  It too over 70 years and
 untold suffering before people finally realized that resentment won't
 motivate humans to establish a utopian society.  This is just one
 example one of the many forces that motivate us to take action.  In our
 everyday lives we are motivate by many forces but they all arise from
 our emotions.  In my personal evaluation of all our emotions, I have
 concluded love is the most dominant emotion.  Why do we all want love? I
 think it is because we all want happiness.  The reality is that
 happiness cannot exist outside the subject object.  Without an object to
 reflect the personality of the subject, the subject can never experience
 joy.  I therefore agree with the Divine Principle that God created
 humanity for the purpose of fulfilling the object position to Himself.
 Almighty God, however we may define him/her, cannot experience love,
 happiness and joy without an object.

 When we study science we can conclude that chemical bonds only form when
 there is a reciprocal base.  In other words, when bonds form and a
 higher substance comes into existence, the based for such a relationship
 is attraction.  The Divine Principle calls this imitating force that
 brings about unity and harmony, Universal Prime Force.

 The Forces of Give and Take Action are the forces generated when a
 subject and an object have good Give and Take Action with each other.
 This action is initiated by the Universal Prime Force, and so the
 Universal Prime Force is causal and vertical and in the subject position
 to the Forces of Give and Take Action, which are resultant and
 horizontal and in the object position.  The Universal Prime Force
 originates in God and is the Force which God projects into each being at
 the time of its creation.  The Forces of Give and Take Action are the
 Forces manifested in the relationships among and within all created
 beings, and are the forces by which all created beings exist, reproduce,
 and act.

 Although the Universal Prime Force is a basic element contained in all
 things, it originates in one source, God. As a result, the Creation is
 harmonious in its myriad Forms, regardless of the countless types of
 Give and Take Action initiated by the Universal Prime Force.

 In other words, through Universal Prime Force, Give and Take Action is
 directed by a unifying purpose and, through its reciprocal organic
 relationships, generates the forces necessary for the existence,
 reproduction, and action of all things, from the smallest to the
 largest.

 The direction and goal of all Give and Take Actions are controlled by
 Universal Prime Force.  Give and Take Action exists not only so that a
 subject and object can fulfill their individual purposes, but also for
 the greater purpose of unifying all things.  The ultimate purpose of
 Give and Take Action is to have subject and object unite and develop to
 a greater and higher dimension.  The individual being which the subject
 and object become when they unite then strives for Give and Take Action
 with a corresponding counterpart of this greater dimension, and by
 uniting they develop into a still higher being. Thus, all things have
 both the purpose of self-maintenance and the purpose of maintaining the
 whole; therefore the universe can be said to be one huge organic body of
 interpenetrating, harmonized dual purposes.

  (Actually, human motivations seem to all be
 AS> prompted by a release of tension,
 AS> which is then felt as "joy.")  Joy is the final product, not the
 AS> beginning motivator.  (Desire to experience joy may be a
 AS> motivator for some actions, but that is not the same thing as
 AS> joy.)

 Correct.  The desire to experience joy in the motivating force for
 actions. I would say ALL actions. Even if a person is seeking to release
 tension, they don't want to merely feel neutral. They want satisfaction.
 ...well, at least I do.

 AS> You seem to be saying that if one source of stress is satisfied,
 AS> they all must be satisfied, or else what I said was wrong.  I
 AS> did not mean to imply that.  There are many kinds of stress,
 AS> each with their own ways of being relieve

 How many sources of stress can you list?
 What exactly is stress?
 Why do we experience it?

 AS> So far I haven't seen any reason to see why the hypothesis that
 AS> biology in my "creator" would be illogical.

 What/who do you consider to by your creator?
 Where did you come from?
 Why are you here? (I don't mean in this conference.)

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Date       03-18-92 20:20:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Alan Smith
Subject    Why Not

 AS> Why did he cause himself to suffer at the sight of someone else
 AS> suffering? If he caused himself to suffer, why can't he simply
 AS> cause himself not to suffer?

 God did not cause His own suffering directly.  He took on a partner and
 just like any person who takes on a partner, He took a risk.  If you had
 a partner and they wrote a bunch of bad checks or ran your business in a
 way that brought you grief, that is part of risk you took when you made
 the decision to include this person in your business.  However, no one,
 not even God, would bring in a partner without the hope of becoming more
 successful or feeling a greater happiness.  When you consider marriage
 what kind of partner do you hope/want to find.  Would you take on a
 marriage partner that you thought would bring you grief?  If we only
 look at the risks we have to question why any person would enter into
 any relationship, marital, business or otherwise.  God obviously took
 the risk connected with taking on a partner because He had hopes of
 experiencing some kind of higher satisfaction.

 AS> TB> I don't believe that loneliness is genetical.

 AS> So be it.  It is not really my purpose to convince you if you
 AS> are reluctant to look, with an open mind, at what I say.  It was
 AS> my original purpose to show you that there are other alternative
 AS> explanations than yours to some of the more important questions
 AS> in life, and that some of these explanations
 AS> show signs (to me) of providing some good avenues to finding
 AS> good, useful answers.

 I didn't say I was not open minded.  I simply suggested that you try
 harder to convince me.

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Date       03-19-92 07:52:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Bill Izzo
Subject     Belief

 BI> Walter, do you believe that once you are saved, you cannot
 BI> become unsaved? We are sealed with a promise.  And also when we
 BI> accept Jesus we are written in the Lambs book of Life.  If you
 BI> can become "unsaved" does God take an eraser
 BI> and take you out of the book or has it been written in ink<g>.
 BI> I have been taught that once you are saved you are sealed, and
 BI> that nothing can take that
 BI> away.  I'm just not sure. Would you mind helping me clear up
 BI> this point?

 I doubt that I will clear up the point, but I wonder if Adam and Eve's
 name were ever in "The Book."

 MAT 5:20     For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall
 exceed [the righteousness] of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no
 case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

 MAT 7:21    Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter
 into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father
 which is in heaven.

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Date       03-19-92 07:56:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Roger Hepworth
Subject     Christianity

 RH> TB>   I suppose I will have to confess that for me direct
 RH> spiritual TB>  experience
 RH> TB>   with the living God take precedency over unwritten
 RH> conjunctures. TB>  <grin>

 RH> but how do you know if this experience was with God or the
 RH> satan.

 This question can be asked of anyone.  How do you discern your spiritual
 experiences?

 RH> because without the Bible you have nothing compair it with

 I didn't suggest throwing out the Bible, I only stated that for me
 a personal experience with the living God took precedence over unwritten
 conjunctures.

 RH> Satan can make you feel good, give you a real nice
 RH> experience some people even think it from God.

 There must be some criterion :

 JOH 7:17    If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine,
 whether it be of God, or [whether] I speak of myself. JOH 7:18    He
 that speaketh of himself seeketh his own glory: but he that seeketh his
 glory that sent him, the same is true, and no unrighteousness is in him.

 RH> But Moon teaches
 RH> agains the Word of God and being a son of satan he his self can
 RH> be used by satan to lead mean a soul to the pit of hell.

 Sure brings back memories:

 MAR 3:22  And the scribes which came down from Jerusalem said, He hath
 Beelzebub, and by the prince of the devils casteth he out devils.

 JOH 5:18    Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he
 not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father,
 making himself equal with God.

 RH> But you can't know that because you let him tell you a lie
 RH> like you can't know what the bible says because it writen in
 RH> code.

 JOH 16:25   These things have I spoken unto you in proverbs: but the
 time cometh, when I shall no more speak unto you in proverbs, but I
 shall shew you plainly of the Father.

 RH> GOD IS NOT A GOD OF CONFUSION.
 RH> but That old dog Moon is a man of confusion.

 Are you applying for candidacy to get registered in my INSULATE program?
 I have not called your minister an "old dog"  you best cease from
 calling mine one if you want to continue to have access to my system and
 all the people who use it.

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Date       03-19-92 08:08:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Philippe Blanchard
Subject    Moses And Elijah

 PB> TB>  Why didn't the resurrection of Moses and Elijah make them a
 PB> messiah?
 PB>
 PB>        Who says they ever were resurrected?

 What do you call it when two people who lived hundreds of years ago die
 and then are seen talking to someone in the present?

 And, how do you distinguish Jesus' appearance from the appearance of
 these folk:

 MAT 27:53   And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went
 into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

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Date       03-19-92 12:41:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Walter Copes
Subject    Messiah

 WC>     Obviously not. The reason is self evident. Had He returned
 WC> 10 years ago we would presently be 10 years into the Millennial
 WC> Reign of Christ. The majority of the present population would be
 WC> dead. The major cities would be in ruins. Large land masses
 WC> would be under the sea along with numerous islands. Areas of
 WC> land presently under the sea would be dry. Numerous new islands
 WC> would be around. There would be no more crime, war, hunger or
 WC> sickness. All these things the Scripture have prophesied to
 WC> occur when Jesus returns the second time. Since none of these
 WC> things have occurred then Jesus absolutely has not returned.
 WC> Thus there are only false messiahs loose in the world.

 Where does the Bible say that these things will take place instantly?
 You are starting with a false assumption based on the fantasy
 expectation of supernatural events.  Satan has had 2,000 years to
 develop his evil empire.  God and Christ won't be able to change that
 overnight.  At a minimum it will take several years.  You obviously have
 forgotten that the fulfillment of man's portion of responsibility is an
 ESSENTIAL and NECESSARY part of the establishment of the kingdom of God
 on earth.  If the fulfillment of man's portion of responsibility were
 not necessary then God would have established His kingdom long ago. God
 does not enjoy suffering.

 WC> TB>He will be giving the blessing of marriage to fallen people
 WC> one TB>more time ( probably August of this year ),  so you have
 WC> one last TB>chance at the 11 th hr.  but time is running out.
 WC>
 WC>     He can bless till he falls over dead and it will continue to
 WC> be meaningless. It will have absolutely no effect upon the
 WC> prophecies of God for the end times.

 Here we have the third biggest mistake you have made.  ....only behind
 the error you made when you said that God would NEVER have any grand
 children and I forget now what the other big one was.  I can guarantee
 you that if Christ, the Messiah, son of the living God, gives the
 blessing of marriage to a fallen couple it won't be meaningless.  If
 Christ blesses someone in marriage it will be ok with God and approved
 by God.  There is simply no way you can speculate that such an event
 would have no effect upon that couple and their lineage.


 WC>     Your verses are not related to the subject. They are taken
 WC> out of context. You would do better to stick to the Divine
 WC> Principle for your authority and leave the Scripps alone. They
 WC> will not support your doctrine. In fact, they contradict it at
 WC> virtually ever point.

 Exactly the same response of the "know it alls" of Jesus' day....

 But according to Jesus they were taking the route that ended with them
 as children of hell:

 MAT 23:15   Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye
 compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make
 him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.

 MAT 23:13    But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye
 shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in
 [yourselves], neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.

 MAT 23:14   Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye
 devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye
 shall receive the greater damnation.


 Walter, it grieves me to tell you that you too are waking this route.
 Unless you listen to the voice of God with a prayerful, humble attitude
 you are going to end up exactly where the spiritual leaders of Jesus'
 day have gone.  I really can't do any more than I'm doing.  I am trying
 to teach you with truth and I am seriously praying that you can
 understand and believe in the message I am showing to you.  I want to
 inspire and encourage you but you must open your heart.

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Date       03-19-92 13:02:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Walter Copes
Subject    Second Advent

 WC> TB>Good advice, but when the Messiah comes he will be born of a
 WC> woman TB>and few people will recognize him.
 WC>
 WC>     You are directly contradicted by Scripture. Your doctrine on
 WC> this point is completely extra-biblical.

 Here it is:

 REV 12:5    And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all
 nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and
 [to] his throne.

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Date       03-19-92 13:03:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Walter Copes
Subject    Second Advent

 WC>     It is very obvious that everyone will see Him and know who
 WC> He is. Otherwise they would not mourn for Him.

 People mourned for Jesus and they saw him too but they did not recognize
 he was the Christ.... just like you see Rev. Moon and do not recognize
 he is a man of God.

 LUK 23:27    And there followed him a great company of people, and of
 women, which also bewailed and lamented him. LUK 23:28   But Jesus
 turning unto them said, Daughters of Jerusalem, weep not for me, but
 weep for yourselves, and for your children.

 WC> TB>He may have already been born.
 WC>
 WC>     You are correct. He has already been born. He was born about
 WC> 2000  years ago. He is not dead. He is very much alive.

 Yes, and so is the second coming.

 WC> TB>So my advice for those who are waiting on the coming of the
 WC> Messi- TB>ah is to start looking.

 WC>     This is one of the few scriptural things you advocate.
 WC> However,  your reasons are all wrong.

 Can someone be wright for the wrong reason?   I don't know... it is
 simply a philosophical point I thought about when I read this.

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Date       03-19-92 13:11:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Philip Brown
Subject    SOUL

 PB>     I do not disagree with John 4:24 at all.  What you are
 PB> thinking of when you read it is, "God is ONLY a Spirit".

 I don't think matter is God.  I don't think matter ever assembled into
 the person of Jesus and became God.  I know some people believe
 everything is God...  what is the term for the belief that God is in
 everything in all of the creation?   I forgot.  But is that your
 position?  Does God permeate the creation?  I believe we do see His
 character and nature in the things He has created, but is this God we
 see when we look at the trees, mountains, waters, etc.  If Jesus was
 physically God then what about the food, water, etc that he took in to
 grow and substain himself?  Did this food and water become God or was it
 God already.  If it was not God did it become God?  When did it become
 God?  Some of the food Jesus ate was changed into material that built
 his body.  If this food that became part of the construction of Christ's
 body was not God before he ate, and then it was God when it became part
 of his whiskers, when was it transformed? What of the food that passed
 through his body?  Did such matter pass through him without becoming
 God?  Was the matter that baby Jesus left in his diapers converted back
 to non-God?

 Do you see the rational difficulties I have to deal with and resolve if
 I consider that the body of Jesus Christ was God?